[Info-vax] Licenses on VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source code listing scans

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/10/21 5:03 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/10/2021 3:10 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/10/2021 12:54 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2021 10:46 AM, chris wrote:
>>>> The other point is, do the original owners really care enough, or
>>>> even at all, when so much licensed software is out there and is
>>>> obsolete and no longer sold ?. Similar case here, where I was trying
>>>> find detail on the write boot block code for early SunOs for historical
>>>> purposes. Found the complete source cd online and was able to complete
>>>> the task. No profit involved, other than keeping some old machines
>>>> alive.
>>>>
>>>> Ethical dilemmas everywhere in life and we all have to make our
>>>> own choices...
>>>
>>> If one is willing to pay for something, but there is no one available 
>>> to pay,
>>> than what?  Either one does without, or, one does whatever is necessary.
>>> While there may be those who feel I should just do without, I do not 
>>> agree
>>> with them.
>>>
>>> Case in point.  We at Consolidated Data insist that all our customers 
>>> have
>>> support for their commercial use VMS systems.  That is our ethics.  
>>> However,
>>> should the time come when there is nobody to pay for such support, 
>>> and the
>>> license terminates, and VMS stops working, then I will bypass the 
>>> licensing to
>>> keep my customer in business.  That is my ethics.
>>
>> I really don't get that.
> 
> No, you really don't.
> 
>> If the same customers needed a loan and the bank said no would
>> bank robbery be justified?
> 
> We are not discussing something an entity doesn't already have.  We are 
> discussing a product that customers have bought and paid for.  Your 
> example is way wrong.
> 
>> I don't think so.
>>
>> I also somewhat doubt that those companies would agree to run their
>> business on illegal software.
> 
> That's the question, isn't it?  Is it really illegal to use a product 
> one has already purchased and paid for?

You do not purchase VMS.  You buy a license to use it within the terms
of the license. Period.  You never own a copy of VMS.  Read the license.

> 
> In the hypothetical situation where a vendor requires a customer to 
> continue with support, if the vendor is no longer available to provide 
> such support, is that any fault of the customer?  It would be the vendor 
> that changed things, not the customer.  The vendor would have broken the 
> contract, not the customer.
> 

The would be required to continue to provide the service called for
in the contract.  When the contract expires they are not required to
institute a  new contract.  A contract is an agreement between both
parties.  Either one can refuse to renew.  Many previous VMS customers
have already done that.  Can they be required to continue to license
and use VMS?  Works both ways.

bill