[Info-vax] Licenses on VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source code listing scans

[Henry Crun]

On 12/12/2021 2:12, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/11/21 2:25 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/11/2021 1:40 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 12/11/21 11:51 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/11/2021 8:20 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>             Kind of like COBOL.  It is probably one of the
>>>>> most used languages for serious business applications in use
>>>>> today.  Some of the largest information systems in the world
>>>>> are written in it.  Everybody is affected by its use every day.
>>>>
>>>> If an application:
>>>> - is processing money
>>>> - first version was written before 1995
>>>> - has not been rewritten after 1995
>>>> then there is a good chance that it is in Cobol.
>>>
>>> And, not just processing money.
>>>
>>>> And a lot of those applications are very important applications.
>>>>
>>>> But I am not so sure that it is one of the most used languages.
>>>
>>> I didn't say most used languages.  I limited myself to serious
>>> business.  There is no COBOL version of Candy Crush.
>>>
>>>> The estimate is that Cobol is about 200 billion out of 3 trillion lines
>>>> of code (7%). And based on hiring statistics it looks like Cobol
>>>> work is like 1% of development work being done.
>>>
>>> Many of the times those hiring statistics are compiled by thge
>>> people trying to kill COBOL.
>>
>> I am very skeptical about such a conspiracy theory.
> 
> Not a conspiracy theory.  A lot of the polls done today have a
> pre-desired conclusion and they are made to fit it.  I point
> this out to pollsters on Indeed all the time.  It's like asking
> "Yes or no.  Have you stopped beating your wife?"  :-)
> 
>>
>>>                            I have watched the number of COBOL
>>> jobs publicly advertised rise by  more than 1000% in the past
>>> 5-10 years.
>>
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> At the big job sites the number of Cobol jobs has decreased by
>> 2/3 the last 15 years.
> 
> Based on what numbers?  15 years ago Indeed would list maybe 10
> or 15.  Just did a search for COBOL: Page 1 of 2,462 jobs.
> Even if half of them are bogus it's still a lot.
> 
>>
>>>                   I have followed and even been involved with some of
>>> the largest COBOL users and watched their hiring practices. Believe it or not, not everyone hires thru Indeed, 
>>> Monster or Dice.
>>
>> Not everyone.
>>
>> But assuming that Cobol is many times more required in the total
>> job market than there seems like wishful thinking from someone that
>> likes Cobol.
> 
> Or someone who has noit drunk the koolaid and is trying to enlighten
> people to something that is being hidden.  Regardless of the reason.
> 
>>
>>>> And all the largest systems are distributed. They use
>>>> Hadoop, Cassandra, Kafka etc.. Traditional technologies
>>>> does simply not scale to that level.
>>>
>>> You wanna bet?  While some of the frontend stuff has mofrated to
>>> the typical web crap the IRS for example is still a Unisys OS2200
>>> shop with the code being mostly Legacy ACOB carried forward from
>>> its origination on a UNIVAC 1100.
>>
>> Yes. And that system may have been a big system 30 years ago.
> 
> The US IRS is one of the biggest ISes in the world.  Large enough
> that some of the biggest contracting companies in the United States
> looked at an RFP to replace it and said it probably couldn't be
> done.  And so it is still written mostly in COBOL running on Unisys
> OS2200.
> 
>>
>> But today large systems are NNN/NNNN nodes, NNNN CPU's, N/NN TB memory and N PB disk.
> 
> In what way does that contradict what I said above?  Or are you one
> of those people who think IBM Mainframe still means 360/40.
> 
> bill
> 

Where I work (government land administration) started in 2014 I was told I was there for a two-year project to move 
several hundred COBOL programs to a Windows database system. Seven years later, it's due to be comleted "by the end of 
2022."
Several dozen programmers working on and around the project, also mantaining the (still operational, live system) COBOL.
Just saying...

-- 
Mike R.
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