[Info-vax] Licenses on VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source code listing scans

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 12/13/2021 3:26 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/13/21 1:53 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/12/2021 9:22 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 12/11/21 7:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/11/2021 7:12 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>> On 12/11/21 2:25 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/11/2021 1:40 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/11/21 11:51 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>>>> And all the largest systems are distributed. They use
>>>>>>>> Hadoop, Cassandra, Kafka etc.. Traditional technologies
>>>>>>>> does simply not scale to that level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You wanna bet?  While some of the frontend stuff has mofrated to
>>>>>>> the typical web crap the IRS for example is still a Unisys OS2200
>>>>>>> shop with the code being mostly Legacy ACOB carried forward from
>>>>>>> its origination on a UNIVAC 1100.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. And that system may have been a big system 30 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> The US IRS is one of the biggest ISes in the world.  Large enough
>>>>> that some of the biggest contracting companies in the United States
>>>>> looked at an RFP to replace it and said it probably couldn't be
>>>>> done.  And so it is still written mostly in COBOL running on Unisys
>>>>> OS2200.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But today large systems are NNN/NNNN nodes, NNNN CPU's, N/NN TB 
>>>>>> memory and N PB disk.
>>>>>
>>>>> In what way does that contradict what I said above?  Or are you one
>>>>> of those people who think IBM Mainframe still means 360/40.
>>>>
>>>> A z15 max out at 24 CPU with 190 cores for application and OS
>>>> and 40 TB memory 192 IO cards.
>>>>
>>>> The largest Unisys (the 8300) is as far as I can read only
>>>> 8 CPU with 64 cores for application and OS and 512 GB of memory.
>>>>
>>>> It just doesn't scale to what companies with large data processing
>>>> requirements need today.
>>>>
>>>> 11 years ago(!) the largest Hadoop cluster had 2000 CPU with 22400
>>>> cores, 64 TB memory and 21 PB data on disk.
>>>
>>> And yet the IRS is doing it just fine.  Go figure.
>>
>> Sure. They got a mid-size problem and their system capable
>> of handling mid-size problems does fine.
> 
> Mid-size?  Do you have any iodea what the US IRS is and what they do?

Yes.

But you told what HW they are running on. And from that it is
an mid-size task.

>> Those that have a very large problem would not be fine.
>>
>> Of course IRS could get the same mid-size capability for way
>> less money on a different platform, but porting is probably
>> expensive. And they do not have any competitors to worry about! :-)
> 
> Expense wasn't the problem.  They have pretty deep pockets. :-)
> The problem was the ability to accomplish a port given the constraints
> they run under.

It is a hard thing to port. The CPU/memory/disk requirement are
mid size. But the requirements are very large.

US Tax rules supposedly consist of 2500 pages of law and 9000
pages of regulations. That is 29 volumes of 400 pages. Hard
problem.

And anybody think that they would simplify rules to make a
port easier or even just freeze rules during a port??

:-)

Arne