[Info-vax] Licenses on VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source code listing scans

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 12/12/2021 9:46 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/11/21 8:13 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/11/2021 7:24 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 12/11/21 3:23 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> So it is hard to say whether it is a great salary or a
>>>> crap salary.
>>>>
>>>> But it is not a sky rocket salary.
>>>
>>> Seriously?  I just took a quick look at Java Programmers on Indeed.
>>> Most of the jobs are for half of that.  And a lot of those were in
>>> NYC where a 1 bedroom apartment starts at $2000 a month.
>>
>> ????
>>
>> Average developer salaries in the US is somewhere in the 100-110 range.
> 
> A quick perusal of Indeed seems to contradict that.  While some
> jobs list a high end over 100K the low end is usually 20K-40K.
> Amazon is paying 30K to stuff boxes around here.

That is the statistics.

And they will not get any programmers for Amazon warehouse pay level.

>> O'Reilly - 
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-much-money-you-can-make-as-a-developer-in-2021/ 
>>
>>
>> Burning Glass / Dice - 
>> https://insights.dice.com/2020/10/13/12-programming-languages-that-pay-ultra-high-salaries/ 
>>
>>
>> Glass Door / Octoparse - 
>> https://www.octoparse.com/blog/15-highest-paying-programming-languages-in-2017 
>>
>>
>> Indeed / Daxx (Python only, but be state) - 
>> https://www.daxx.com/blog/development-trends/python-developer-salary-usa
>>
>> Code Platoon - 
>> https://www.codeplatoon.org/the-best-paying-and-most-in-demand-programming-languages-in-2021/ 
>>
>>
>> Statista / Indeed - 
>> https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/highest-paid-programmers-by-language 
> 
> I used to get the SANS pay survey results.  According to them
> I should have been  making well over $100K.  It never happened.

Maybe location.

I used one of the many online salary comparers and saw:

Scranton PA - 65000

is the same standard of living as:

Manhattan NY - 170000
San Franciso CA - 133500
Brooklyn NY - 123000
Washington DC - 109500
Seattle WA - 106000
Boston MA - 100000
Los Angeles - 99000

>> There is obviously some uncertainty involved in such numbers.
>>
>> But given that they all end up with very similar numbers from
>> different sources, then they seems very plausible.
> 
> Unless part of the purpose is to steer the crowd in a certain direction.

A conspiracy between so many to give an impression of a general higher
salary level then reality?

I don't buy that!

>> Java salaries are at average or slightly above - it is a sort of meat
>> and potato language today - solid demand - but not super hot.
>>
>> The latest and greatest tend to be a lot higher than average due to
>> demand exceeding supply.
>>
>> Rust, Go, Scala etc..
>>
>> A few years ago Ruby and Swift.
> 
> Based on that you would expect COBOL to be at the top.  There is
> still demand.  DFAS and IRS constantly hiring.  Other places I
> have personal experience with also have a need.  And supply is
> very close to zero.

There is still some demand. There seems to be several hundred
open jobs all the time.

But that is not much in the bigger IT job market.

>                  I am not aware of any University in the US
> today that offers even a basic course in COBOL programming.  Not
> even in their CIS degree programs.

If they need people and they can't get them then they raise
salary until they get people.

And people can learn Cobol.

Good programmers can learn new languages.

And Cobol is not nearly as hard to learn as PL/I, Ada, C++ or
Scala.

> There was a Representative in Congress (from my State, actually)
> here that recently proposed a bill to fund a push to get legacy
> stuff (like COBOL) back into education because of the strong need
> for it in the IT world.  Someone like the department I used to
> work for could get as much as $2,000,000 in grant money and all
> they would have to do to qualify would be to offer courses in
> things like COBOL.  I told them about it.  No interest.  "Too
> much paperwork."  And yet the required paperwork was a mere
> fraction of what is required for your average NSF grant.  Think
> about that.  Teach one copurse that used to be on the books
> anyway 15 years ago and get $2,000,000.  And maybe more  next
> year.  Assuming you didn't want to divert current faculty to
> the task, you could hire a new faculty member for maybe $250,000
> to cover pay and benefits. $50,000 to get him and office and
> the rest is in the departments coffers.  And yet, no interest.

Seems pretty silly/arrogant to me to not look into it.

And it is not a bad idea.

There is some demand for those skills.

And while I may consider it risky for an aspiring developer to
only learn Cobol, then learning Cobol as 1 out of 3 languages
makes fine sense.

Arne