[Info-vax] OT: Force vs. weight (was: Where is EISNER:: and who funds it?)

[Johnny Billquist]

Ok. I'll make this short, and then I'll try and keep quiet.

On 2021-12-27 20:50, alanfe... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 10:20:20 AM UTC-5, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> Now, wait a minute. Why did you ask for Europeans wight in newton if you
>> then call me picky when I ask for your weight in lbf. It is *not* the
>> same as lbs.
> 
> Because Philip Helbig brought it up. He said newtons are the preferred unit of weight.

It would be more correct. But it's not what people commonly use.

> And asking for lbf instead of lbs IS picky. Thank you for making my point for me.

It certainly sounds like you should understand the difference between 
lbs and lbf, and yet you seem to not. And you call me picky when I point 
out that they are not the same thing (how can that be picky?) and yet 
you don't seem to think it's picky when you differ between kg and N.

> Alright, I was responding to Helbig re newtons. I bet most Europeans don't even know what newtons are. Maybe they do. I don't really know. But forced to guess, I'd say not. You tell me!

They do. Or at least I would expect they do. I certainly had to learn 
about it at school, and I expect everyone else did as well.

> So Europeans think that a kg is a measure of weight? OK. Whatever.

We usually do tell our weight in kg. Just as you weight cocaine in grams 
in the US. Even though properly it's a mass. But we're assuming we are 
on earth, and thus it becomes convenient to just talk about our mass as 
our weight.

>> I could ask the obvious question why you even asked about my weight in
>> newton in the first place. Did you think it would be some magic,
>> complicated number that I wouldn't know? I suspect most europeans know
>> their weight in newton, since it's pretty much their weight in kilos,
>> with an added 0. And pretty much everyone knows their weight in kilos.
> 
> As you yourself said, a kg is not a unit of weight. Now you say it is. Sure. Also, adding a zero doesn't give accuracy to comparable to lbs.

lbs isn't any more accurate than a kg.
And lbs cannot be compared to newtons. If you want to compare with 
newtons, you need to talk about lbf.

lbs is actually also a unit of mass, and not weight. Didn't you know that?

It's just that, just as with us using kg, the US is using lbs to tell 
weight, even though it's technically incorrect.

>>>>>> Force in pounds for acceleration expressed in m/s^2 ? So if you want it
>>>>>> in lb * foot/s^2, there isn't even a unit? How messed up is this thing?
>>>
>>> I was talking about weighing yourself. Some claimed that the proper unit is N, as that is the SI base unit. Dynes, somehow, despite being a totally legitamite metric unit is somehow deprecated. In fact, it was Helbig:
>> N is the SI unit for force. This shouldn't be that hard...
>> When you start tossing weight around, it's a different thing.
>>> And the acceleration bit. Who's actually doing this? Why are you multiplying a force by an acceleration anyway? That makes no sense!
>> 1 Newton is defined as the force required to accelerate a mass of 1 kg
>> by 1 m/s/s.
>>
>> It has everything to do with acceleration.
> 
> Why are you multiplying a force by acceleration?

I never did. I multiplied mass by acceleration in order to give you the 
force, since you asked for newtons.

And then I have been repeatedly trying to explain to you what force is, 
to make you understand why the answer is what it is, and how to get to 
that answer.

But I can see that I am failing.

> Bracketing by 10 in F is more accurate. More precise. Obviously you don't get that, since I've had to explain it at least twice. I never said you wouldn't bracket temperatures by 10s. I said it was less useful, less precise. I never said no one does it.

Bracketing inherently means you are imprecise. Obviously people outside 
the US do not feel they have a problem, so the claimed superiority is 
obviously very subjective.

In that sense, neither is any better than the other. But since there are 
other benefits, which are clearly more concrete, I would say that speaks 
for changing. And no, my thermostats don't do half degrees.

But again, I don't expect any current users would enjoy much benefits 
from changing. It would be more for future generations.

But I keep repeating myself here, and it's obviously both pointless and 
boring. And will not change anything anyway.

   Johnny