[Info-vax] [Totally OT] Covid-19 vaccine situation

[Dave Froble]

Well, since you brought up this off topic stuff ....

On 3/31/2021 9:05 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> This is totally OT for comp.os.vms but the last discussion on Covid-19
> in general revealed some interesting insights and I hope this one will
> as well. Besides, nobody is posting anything VMS related at the moment.
>
> I've marked the thread as OT to help you killfile it if you wish.

Nothing wrong with a bit of discourse ....

> My question is this: What the hell is going on with the vaccine authorisation
> decision makers in Europe (and elsewhere, such as Canada) at the moment ?

Simon, Simon, Simon, you must not forget, you're talking about 
politicians ....

> I'm reacting to the various decisions made to restrict or even stop the
> use of the AstraZeneca vaccine just because of a few possible cases of
> nasty blood clotting side effects out of many millions of doses given.
> And at the moment, it's not even clear if the AZ vaccine is even
> responsible for those cases because there are so few of them.

It is possible, maybe likely, that person (or persons) was going to get 
that blood clot regardless.  That does happen sometimes.

> I really can't get my head around some of the decisions being made
> in the rest of Europe at the moment and I am hoping that some people
> who actually live in those countries might be able to provide some
> insights that I am clearly missing.

Keep in mind that you're talking about politicians.  The most absurd 
people on the planet.  Well, perhaps, if you include the TV scam 
preachers who preach "give your money to god, and here's my address, 
I'll make sure he gets it".

Also remember, a politician can never be wrong, and when he/she is 
wrong, then they just wait for the scandal to subside.

I've learned one lesson in life, and that is that I rarely, if ever, 
truly understand an issue.  Just when I figure I've got it figured out, 
some damn tidbit of information comes along showing me I never had a clue.

However, what I've appeared to pick up from the news, is that the EU in 
their infinite wisdom (political wisdom that is) decided they would 
negotiate purchases of the vaccines for the entire EU.  In their 
arrogance they were not in any great hurry, after all, they are the EU, 
all should bow down before them, and many others got their orders in 
prior to the EU.  Then when the producers ran into production issues, 
and shipped what they produced on a first come basis, the EU found that 
they ware "tail end Charlie", and there would be repercussions over 
that.  (Now refer back to "can never be wrong")  And so, several 
attempts to use "Nixon's theorem".

In case you're unaware of Nixon's theorem, it goes like this.  "The man 
who can smile when the shit hits the fan is the man who knows someone 
else he can blame."  A time honored practice of politicians.

Anyway, the EU decided that they should not have to wait in line, and 
since some vaccines were manufactured in the EU, they decided the 
vaccines belonged to the politicians running the EU, not the actual 
producers, and because they think they are in charge, can decide where 
the vaccines can go, regardless of the precedence of the orders from 
various customers.  Best part of that is at the time, the EU had NOT 
approved the vaccine(s) in question.

:-)

Additional actions might be claims about the safety of vaccines, to 
throw additional blame upon the producers.

> Medicines in general are not safe. They are instead "mostly safe" and
> they all come with risks as a reading of the safety information leaflet
> for the medicine will reveal.

You are indeed correct.  Quite right!  As I understand the British say 
it?  None of that shit is "good" for us, however, at times it might be 
better than the alternative, such as penicillin vs dying from some 
infection.  Your choice ....

> Some medicines have risks of very nasty side effects at the level of
> 1 in 10000 people taking them. Yet people take those medicines because
> the benefits to most people outweigh the risks to a very small number
> of people.

Such as 5000 in 10000 dying from some disease?

> The number of people who may be affected by blood clots as a result of
> having the AZ vaccine is far fewer than even 1 in 10000, but the same
> people who want to ban the AZ vaccine in parts of Europe are the same
> people who have no problems with other medicines which have nasty
> side effects at the 1 in 10000 people level remaining on sale.
>
> Why for goodness sake ?

I hope you aren't asking why humans are not rational ....

> Are some people really so risk-adverse that they are looking for medicines
> without _any_ side effects and are unwilling to accept a low level of risk ?

Well, ....  yes

> Are these same people actually really playing politics with the lives of
> their citizens for some screwed-up reason ? I really hope this one isn't
> the answer to be honest.

Well, quite likely (see above).

> The longer that some people play stupid games and slow down the vaccine
> effort, the more opportunities the virus has to mutate into something
> that the current vaccines will not work against. It also means that more
> people end up dying than would otherwise have died.

Look at the rationalizations some have used, such as "people die from 
the flu all the time".  One perhaps positive result of all this is that 
(I've read) some of the new techniques just might provide much better 
immunizations against other types of flu.  Regardless, dying is so 
pervasive, that people just accept it.  If on the other hand, we were 
able to do something about aging and death, that just might be 
beneficial.  They just don't try ....

> The only decision that makes sense to me is to go all-out with the
> vaccines that _are_ currently available in order to get the death
> rate (and serious long-term problems from the virus for some survivors)
> down to a much lower level and hence end up saving a lot of lives.

Oh, no, Simon, that is just too sensible, and humans will never go for that.

> Oh, and I had my first AZ dose a couple of weeks ago and was very happy
> to have it at the time because the benefits dramatically outweigh the
> risks.

My second dose of the Molderna vaccine was March 12.


And so Simon, having perhaps plodded through all of the above, do you 
see the potential effect of going "off topic"?

:-)

-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
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