[Info-vax] Microsoft On ARM Failure (was Re: VSI licensing policy (again))

[David Goodwin]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 11:18:14 AM UTC+12, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 5:40 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: 
> > On 9/23/21 4:08 PM, Dave Froble wrote: 
> >> On 9/23/2021 3:20 PM, Stephen Hoffman wrote: 
> >>> On 2021-09-23 15:17:50 +0000, Dave Froble said: 
> >>> 
> >>>> My question is, "why"? 
> >>>> 
> >>>> x86 is cheap. 
> >>>> x86 is everywhere. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> What reason would Microsoft have to look at anything else? 
> >>> 
> >>> Price and power efficiency, same as usual. Arm can be cheaper, more 
> >>> power-efficient, and fast. 
> >>> 
> >>> https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-graviton2-arm-against-intel-and-amd/9 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Arm designs can also be juggernaut-scale, with 15 billion transistors in 
> >>> one recent design; with fast big.LITTLE multiprocessor, a fast GPU, 
> >>> statistics-math acceleration; that's a full-on SoC. And 
> >>> power-efficient. For comparison, Itanium Poulson and Kittson are ~3 
> >>> billion. And Alpha and Itanium processors and servers never really saw 
> >>> appreciable work on power efficiency. 
> >>> 
> >>> As for being "everywhere", the Arm installed base dwarfs those of Intel 
> >>> and AMD and x86-64. And I'd suspect that Arm-related investments dwarf 
> >>> Intel, too. 
> >>> 
> >>> Intel has spectacular processor design and processor fabrication 
> >>> abilities, but they're also necessarily working within a massive 
> >>> software installed base, and with a complex and accreted architecture. 
> >>> And their fabrication efforts have been falling short. TSMC and others 
> >>> have massive investments in fabrication, as well. Intel has discussed 
> >>> using TMSC to fab parts of some Intel-designed components. 
> >>> 
> >>> https://www.reuters.com/business/intel-details-mixed-source-chip-strategy-tsmc-partnerships-2021-08-19/ 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Microsoft has been selling Arm clients for a while, and publicly 
> >>> prototyping Arm servers for several years now, as have others. How far 
> >>> Microsoft might get with Windows 11 for ARM64? There are a number of 
> >>> folks working with the Windows ARM64 insiders' preview, including having 
> >>> gotten that working on Apple M1. 
> >>> 
> >>> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/28/announcing-arm64ec-building-native-and-interoperable-apps-for-windows-11-on-arm/ 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> How? If? When? Unknown. Architectural and product transitions tend to be 
> >>> boring and slow and happening only around the periphery of other 
> >>> markets, then the platforms and tools are ready, and then the changes 
> >>> can then accelerate through the market. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> I'm aware of many of the things ARM is used for. Yes, they are quite 
> >> useful. 
> >> 
> >> But, are they much better for desktop and notebook PCs? I really 
> >> can't see them being much better in that environment. 
> > 
> > What difference does the CPU make for those two application genre? 
> > 
> > bill
> Not much. The question to ask is, what does it cost to move WEENDOZE to 
> ARM? Or just milk the current cash cow ...

It may be worth asking what does it cost *not* to?

If everything you do is in a web browser there isn't really much keeping you on
Windows. If ARM powered Macs get better battery life then your x86 PC for the
same performance that may be enough for Microsoft to loose a customer. It may 
be enough for Microsoft to loose *a lot* of customers.

Better for Microsoft if its a Microsoft product competing with x86 Windows
than some other companies product.