[Info-vax] vax vms licenses

[Don Baccus]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 6:04:59 PM UTC-7, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 4/19/2022 11:53 AM, Don Baccus wrote:
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 10:28:29 PM UTC-7, Dave Froble wrote: 
> >> On 4/18/2022 6:43 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote: 
> >>> Chris Townley <ne... at cct-net.co.uk> wrote: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Looks like murky waters, probably even for I.P. Lawyers and courts. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> But are HP even interested? 
> >>> 
> >>> No, that's the basic problem. 
> >>> HP are not interested enough to go after people illegally using the software 
> >>> but they ALSO are not interested enough to release the software openly either. 
> >>> --scott 
> >>> 
> >> So then, just what is the problem? 
> >> 
> >> As we used to say in the pickup basketball games, "no blood, no foul". 
> >> -- 
> >> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450 
> >> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da... at tsoft-inc.com 
> >> DFE Ultralights, Inc. 
> >> 170 Grimplin Road 
> >> Vanderbilt, PA 15486 
> > "Legal department may have a policy of pursuing all copyright 
> > infringements for the signal value." 
> > 
> > In the US, at least, you can only recover actual damages in a copyright infringement suit (enhanced with punitive damages based on those if you have registered a copyright). There's also the notion of "fair use" and the fact that there are some court rulings in the US that support the notion that using software that is only protected by copyright for personal use is "fair use". 
> > 
> > Copyright law is unlike trademark law where you need to pursue infringement or risk losing trademark protection. This is one of the factors that leads to companies forcing small, insignificant, local businesses to stop using look-alike logos or similar names to their trademark protected logos, names, etc. Many people don't understand that legally, once they become aware of the use, they must try to stop it. 
> > 
> > This whole thing is complicated, though, by the fact that it is licensed software and that you have to use a fake key not issued by HP to use it. One of the reasons software licensing became commonplace is exactly because copyright protection is so weak. So HP is in a much stronger position due to stop people than they would be if they were merely depending on copyright. And it is hard to argue innocence if you go to the trouble of generating a key and install VAX/VMS. 
> >
> How about not using any keys? Simple patch will disable LMF checking. 
> 
> But, first HP would have to know about such usage, and as mentioned, how many at 
> HP/HPe still remember VMS? Then go to the bother of pursuing such use. 
> 
> Keep in mind, I doubt anyone is suggesting commercial use. 
> 
> How will anyone know if a person is using VAX/VMS as a hobbyist?
> -- 
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450 
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da... at tsoft-inc.com 
> DFE Ultralights, Inc. 
> 170 Grimplin Road 
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

I assume you'd have to do that for all of the layered products too?

One recognized example of Fair Use is that if you copy something for personal use to make
a derivative product for your own use, that's Fair Use.  For instance, making a painting of a
photograph to develop your own skills.  Now if you take that painting and sell it, that's not
Fair Use and therefore a copyright infringement.

A rather interesting argument might be that copying and then patching the software
to avoid the license check is just the generating of a derivative work for yourself, thus
Fair Use.

Hmmm ... but if this licensing check is considered access protection under the DMCA
you are guilty of a crime.  Sigh.  But note this is because of the DMCA, not simple copyright,
and the DMCA is (rightly, IMO) hated in a way that copyright law is not.