[Info-vax] The real problem that needs solving to grow VMS

[Dan Cross]

In article <tndo98$2t5k1$1 at dont-email.me>,
Dave Froble  <davef at tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>On 12/14/2022 3:04 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <tncms9$2qee4$1 at dont-email.me>,
>> Dave Froble  <davef at tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> Bottom line, some of us like VMS.  The question is, why do you attempt to talk
>>> us out of it?
>>
>> This is where you guys don't get it.
>
>Oh, I get it just fine.

No, you really don't.

>> You say you like VMS?  I don't believe you, because if you liked
>> it, if you wanted to see it thrive and continue to be useful,
>> then you'd face up to the fact that you have to answer a lot of
>> hard questions.  Now, in late 2022, not 30 years ago, and not by
>> deflection or appeal to the storied reputation of the distant
>> past.
>
>I agree 100%.  Issues need answers.  But sometimes some people won't like the 
>answers.  For instance the size of VSI.  It is what it is.  IBM isn't going to 
>support VMS.  However, you seem to imply that that is a show stopper.  You're 
>entitled to your opinion.  But there can, and are, other opinions.

Okay.  Let's say I'm a purchasing manager and I'm evaluating
options for building a _new_ system.  My choices are between VMS
and Linux.  I'm going to ask my VSI sales rep, "what do I do if
you go out of business in 5 years?"  How should I respond if
they say, "well, we're a small company; it is what it is."  "Do
you support the same security features Linux does that I have a
regulatory obligation to make use of?" "No, but you don't need
them.  And by the way, there was a breakin and the VMS systems
weren't even probed, let alone broken into!"  "I can put out a
req for a Linux system administrator and find tons of qualified
applicants; where do I find qualified VMS system managers that
won't blow my budget?"  "Perhaps I can interest you in some
value adding training as an added line-item?"  "Why should I
buy a license from you if I might be stranded should you
disappear." "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
Ok, Lebowski.

Yeah, are any of these showstoppers?  No.  But given any
reasonable objective comparison, why would someone choose VMS?

>> You'd better figure out how those answer the hard questions
>> because purchasing managers _will_ ask them or they wouldn't be
>> doing their due dilligence.
>>
>>> I might ask, "why chance Linux if one need not?"
>>
>> That sounds a lot more like something I'd expect from a
>> hobbyist than anyone seriously working on production systems.
>
>Well, with over 45 years working in IT, perhaps I'm a bit more than a hobbyist.

Then why are you acting like a hobbyist?

Let me be blunt: I don't care how _long_ you've been in IT.
That, by itself, doesn't mean anything except that you've been
occupying a desk and drawing breath for a long while; it doesn't
mean you have a good understanding of the issues at play, let
alone the considerations people making purchasing decisions are
going to have to weight.

In _my_ experience, people who point to the length of their
experience, as opposed to specific accomplishments, more often
don't have many specific accomplishments.

>> Again, you guys really just don't seem to get it: the world
>> went through the era of vendor-locked proprietary systems and
>> came out the other end.  No one wants to deal with that again.
>
>Your opinion is then universal, and must be accepted by everyone?

It's not an opinion.  It is a simple statement of fact that the
landscape has changed fundamentally from when DEC was pushing
VMS as a serious competitor.  You want to see VMS compete in the
marketplace?  Better figure out the answers to some of these
tough questions, no matter how uncomfortable they make you, or
how much you resent these young whipper-snappers who are only
pushing 30 years of experience relative to your 45 for having
the temerity of asking them in the first place.

>> If you _like_ VMS and want it to be competitive, then come up
>> with some good answers to these questions and nightmare, "what
>> if?" scenarios.  Hope is not a strategy and getting mad at
>> people who ask the questions isn't going to keep VMS alive.
>
>Not mad, or even angry.  I too ask those questions.

Then stop throwing invective at those of us who also like VMS,
don't want to see it disappear, and want real answers to these
questions.

Shesh.  It's not that hard people.  It's not your like someone
is calling your baby ugly.

	- Dan C.