[Info-vax] The real problem that needs solving to grow VMS

[Dave Froble]

On 12/14/2022 10:56 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
> In article <tnduv4$68n$1 at gioia.aioe.org>,
> Arne Vajhøj  <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 12/14/2022 8:35 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
>>> In article <tnds9h$1dug$1 at gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> Arne Vajhøj  <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>> Given that there must be lots of risks that
>>>> apply to VMS but not to Linux and lots of risks
>>>> that apply to Linux but not to VMS, then the fact that
>>>> this risk apply to VMS but not to Linux does
>>>> not make Linux more attractive.
>>>
>>> This is the thing: what risks apply to Linux that do not apply
>>> to VMS?  Seriously.  Give me an example.
>>
>> Vulnerabilities in systemd.
>
> First of all, it is not necessary to run systemd, and there are
> Linux distros that don't ship it.
>
> But if we're going to go there, now count vulnerabilities in
> VMS...but apply the same microscope of research to VMS that we
> do to Linux, to make it a fair comparison.
>
>> GPL being declared illegal by the supreme court.
>
> The GPL has been tested in court multiple times, and this has
> never even been close to an outcome.  Moreover, how many
> large organizations have bet their collective farms on it?
> If Google, Amazon, Meta, any number of government labs,
> not to mention Fortune 500 companies are running Linux in
> mission-critical roles, do you really think that is likely to
> happen?  Didn't their lawyers scrutinize it with respect to
> existing caselaw?

Nothing is guaranteed.  How many actually though Roe vs Wade would be reversed? 
The unexpected can happen.

>> VMS does not have systemd.
>
> Not every Linux distribution has systemd, either.
>
> But VMS does have a bunch of services that have received no
> significant security attention over the last 30 years.
>
> Moreover Linux is the most popular operating system in the
> world, and runs on everything from cell phones to every top-500
> supercomputer in the world; I'd estimate that it has more cycles
> run through it in a minute than VMS ever did in its entire
> existence.  That's a lot of security scrutinization.
>
>> VMS is not under GPL.
>
> No, it's not.  What licenses _does_ it fall under?  I keep
> hearing something about Oracle; suppose they try and sue VSI to
> enforce some sort of rights?  If we're talking nightmare
> license scenarios, that seems more likely than the GPL being
> nullified in US courts.
>
>> VMS and Linux are different. There must be thousands/millions of
>> things that could go wrong for VMS without impacting Linux
>> and thousands/millions of things that could go wrong for Linux
>> without impacting VMS.
>
> Yes, they are different.  But if "systemd and the GPL" are the
> best examples of risks people can come up with for Linux, it's
> reinforcing my thesis that choosing Linux is a lot less risky
> than choosing VMS.
>
> I contend that the number of risks for VMS is much greater than
> the number for Linux; they're not even within the same order of
> magnitude.  And I _like_ VMS and want to see it be successful;
> those with purchasing power could probably care less and see
> only the drawbacks.
>
> Sorry, but I'd wager a year's salary that this is how most
> purchasing agents would see the matter.  It is NOT making the
> case for VMS.  Folks who want to see VMS succeed need to do
> better to make the case for it.

If a purchasing agent is making IT decisions, then perhaps the customer is 
already screwed.

If VMS proviodes the best solution/environment for a particular task, and it is 
not chosen, isn't that also taking a risk?


-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef at tsoft-inc.com
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