[Info-vax] relaunch or legacy

[Gérard Calliet]

Le 28/01/2022 à 13:29, John Dallman a écrit :
> In article <j5i0m8Fs463U1 at mid.individual.net>,
> gerard.calliet at pia-sofer.fr (Gérard Calliet) wrote:
> 
>> I apologize for the probably pretentiousness of this presentation.
>> If it can be an excuse, I consider that the respect due to an
>> audience as learned and experienced as c.o.v. implies to entrust
>> them with complex things.
> 
> Here we seem to have a difference in national etiquette. To Americans,
> and other English-speakers, especially engineers, a crisis is best
> explained in a few blunt words. Lengthy speeches remove the sense of
> urgency.
> 
> However, I don't think the situation is as bad as you do. 
I cannot say anything about the world wide - because VSI don't say 
anything -. But in France the situation is a lot worse than what I say. 
And we have had in France a lot of efforts made to keep the customers in 
(port of python, use on vms of zabbix,... a heir of DECUS doing a lot of 
things (100 attendees on meetings about VMS with VMSgenerations). And in 
the same country I think I'm the only one who says VSI can succeed. 
Others (customers and consultants)all say VMS will dye in 3 or 5 years. 
The differences are only between angst and anger.
VSI have not
> made an elaborate plan to address all of the things you're worried about,
> but that is almost certainly because they've been concentrating on the
> issue of the x86 port. 
My point. On my side I see that as the bad idea. I agree without x86 in 
some future, nothing is possible. But because the time to x86 is long - 
more long every year - it is important to cope with a very long 
transition, and so the unique goal x86 cannot work. And even if we had 
now x86, a port is always a big decision(remember the ports to alpha or 
itannium), we have the problem of ISV.
The logic had to be we will port to x86 because VMS is good for us for 
x, y, z questions, notably the confort that give us VSI we'll try a port 
to x86. And not: because you will have x86 you have to be with VMS now, 
even with sacrifices. It is this logic which doesn'nt work.
Without that working, they are sunk. Now they know
> it will work, they should be making the plans for distribution and
> marketing.
No. Marketing had to be and has to be made about VMS intrinsics. Same 
idea.>
> Remember that we're viewing this process partly from the inside. It is
> not surprising that it does not look smooth; these things never do from
> within.
> 
>> I come back to the "Digital is dead, long live DEC" reference. I
>> always have this reference in mind, following two ways of thinking:
> 
> I'm afraid that to me it does not convey anything meaningful.
> 
> I can, however, see a possible approach that would assist French
> customers and intermediaries. Let me explain:
> 
> A transition to x86 is excellent for VMS end-users who are willing and
> able to move their applications to x86 swiftly. But not all of them are
> in that position.
> 
> A transition to x86 means that some parts of intermediaries' expertise
> becomes far less useful: expertise on DEC and the older HP hardware will
> no longer be required by end-users who are no longer using old kit. The
> intermediaries need something else to sell.
> 
> These two problems may have the same solution.
> 
> I mentioned the idea of emulating Alpha and IPF yesterday. Emulating
> 64-bit VMS on VMS is rather easier than emulating it on a non-VMS
> operating system. The x86 VMS has, I think, all the system calls of Alpha
> and IPF versions, and thanks to the DEC calling standard, they're called
> in the same way.
> 
> So reviving the free and open-source IPF emulator I posted a link to
> today, porting it to x86 VMS, and equipping it with a system call
> translation facility would seem to be a route to running IPF VMS
> applications on x86 VMS.
> 
> That gives a transition route to running on x86 for IPF customers who
> can't or won't port their applications, and gives intermediaries
> something to provide expertise on. This will require a fair amount of
> open-source software development work, but that will benefit everyone
> involved, and probably prompt improvements to x86 VMS development tools.
You gave excellent technical ideas. I'll see that.

The point today is business success, gaining again trust from customers. 
And they are not stupid: we have to answer objective things to their 
abjective angsts.
> 
> John


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