[Info-vax] Userland programming languages on VMS.

[Dave Froble]

On 1/28/2022 2:14 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-01-27, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG <VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
>> In article <ssurv4$nm1$1 at dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley at remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes:
>>>
>>> On a more serious note, what would be an acceptable programming language
>>> for userland tools which need to be shipped as part of the operating system ?
>>>
>>> Let's look at the language options for creating a new userland level
>>> tool on VMS today:
>>>
>>> Macro-32 and BLISS are absolutely unsuitable for obvious reasons.

Simon, you're rather good at assuming that you are always correct.  But that is 
an opinion, everyone is entitled to one, and we do not all have to agree.

>> What *obvious* reasons?
>>
>
> 1) No type safety (even C has _some_ type safety but not as much as say
> Pascal, Ada, or the Wirth languages in general),

You like "type safety", and I will not argue against it.  But not having type 
safety does not guarantee mistakes.

> 2) ability to make more really silly mistakes that the compiler will not
> catch because it doesn't have enough information to tell you,

I like the computer to do the grunt work.  But not doing so does not mean 
"unsuitable".

> 3) vast amount of effort to do anything significant compared with the amount
> of effort required even in C to do the same thing,
>
> 4) lack of people who understand the languages when changes are required.

Now, that is an issue.  I used to muddle through Macro-32, but, after a lengthy 
period of not using it, I have discovered that I'm now not competent to do so. 
(Just like I find myself spell checking every other word.)

> BLISS, and especially Macro-32, belong in the past for any brand new
> programs (as opposed to maintaining existing ones)

Bliss was developed for writing system level code.  Why has it all of a sudden 
become unsuitable?  I will admit that it isn't so well known.

> The absolute minimum standard for any new applications these days is C.
> (And yes, that's a _minimum_ standard. :-))

King Simon speaks, we all must obey.  Or, we dump him, like we dumped King Donald.


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