[Info-vax] Userland programming languages on VMS.

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 1/31/22 14:22, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-01-31, Arne Vajhøj <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 1/31/2022 8:42 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>
>>> For the same reason that OS designers moved from Fortran to C as the
>>> system implementation language when C became available.
>>
>> I am not aware of any OS done in Fortran.
>>
> 
> Anyone remember the Sperry V77 series with VORTEX II ?
> 
> I was exposed to it in secondary school. DASMR assembler for the kernel
> and at least some of the userland stuff written in Fortran IV IIRC.

Some of the Primos "Userland" was in Fortran.  I have used a number of
editors that were written in Fortran.  Also graphics libraries and
at least one database system.

> 
> Also, didn't the first version of Software Tools use a Fortran version
> within the book ? There was clearly a demand for it before C got established.

Ratfor, actually.  But that means a Fortran compiler.  I just
mentioned STVOS a few messages earlier.  For those who don't
know what that means, Software Tools Virtual Operating System.
POSIX before there was a POSIX.  Ran on damn near anything
including VMS.

> 
>>
>> C is a good language for OS kernel.
>>
>> I don't see it as particular well suited for user land utilities.
>> C's low level features are not needed and just add risk.
>>
> 
> Oh, I strongly agree that there are better options for userland stuff
> than C. The only question is what is mainstream enough to be a viable
> alternative when you consider the global nature of C and the fact that
> there is a C compiler for _everything_ ?
> 
> Any alternative needs to be popular enough and have enough support
> in general across multiple architectures and operating systems that
> it becomes an asset to the operating systems using it and not a liability.

And, it has to be easy to bootstrap onto a new architecture.  Unless
it's been decided that we have reached the end of that line and there
aren't going to be any new architectures.  :-)

bill