[Info-vax] The real problem that needs solving to grow VMS

[David Goodwin]

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 1:20:42 PM UTC+13, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 11/1/2022 4:13 PM, David Goodwin wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:30:18 AM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >> On 11/1/2022 6:16 AM, David Goodwin wrote: 
> >>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 1:59:20 PM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >>>> Until VMS will get on the short list then it is not an option. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> If VMS makes it to the short list then I am not so worried 
> >>>> about the picking phase. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sure it would be a problem if the goal was to make it 
> >>>> VMS-Linux 50%-50%. Convincing 50% of the decision makes 
> >>>> to pick VMS would not be easy. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> But if the goal is the more realistic VMS-Linux 1%-99%, 
> >>>> then it is a lot easier. Some decision makers will be 
> >>>> willing to look at less common alternatives. Some 
> >>>> decision makers will have had a recent bad experience 
> >>>> with Linux. 
> >>> 
> >>> Even if the software was available on OpenVMS, why would you 
> >>> choose it over Linux? Why subject your business to the high licensing 
> >>> costs, yearly license renewals, and difficulty of finding skilled staff? 
> >>> All to run software that was probably ported from Linux anyway? What 
> >>> is the actual selling point of OpenVMS to potential customers? 
> >> If gratis is the goal, then VMS is not the answer. 
> >> 
> >> But there are still companies willing to pay. 
> >>> And probably the reason why there is no software for OpenVMS is that 
> >>> it's too obscure, almost certainly because of it's licensing situation. Until 
> >>> its cheap and easy to license like its competitors, I don't really see it 
> >>> having any chance. 
> >> I am not aware of buying VMS licenses should not be easy. You 
> >> contact VSI, you pay and you get your license. Anyone have had 
> >> problems? 
> >> 
> >> Some may think the price is too high. But heck I also think that 
> >> Ferrari's are too expensive as I can't afford one, but that is life. 
> > 
> > I don't have to contact Microsoft to buy windows licenses - I can do it all 
> > online with my credit card. I don't even *have* to buy a linux license - I 
> > can just download the ISO. Even something as obscure and niche as OS/2 
> > I can just buy online from the Arca Noae online store. The prices are all 
> > right there in the open.
> We ain't talking about spur-of-the-moment purchasing. A serious customer has no 
> problem working with a vendor. 
> 
> I'll agree that a bit more openness would be good.
> > What does OpenVMS cost? I really have no idea - I'd have to email 
> > someone. And is the cost going to be the same as what everyone else 
> > is paying or am I going to be charged extra because I'm not a big 
> > customer? I'll likely never know.
> If you're using VMS in a serious manner, the cost of the OS and maintenance is 
> way down your list of priorities.
> > OpenVMS is competing with Linux which is pretty much the default 
> > choice for everyone who isn't so heavily invested in Microsoft stuff 
> > they can't move, has huge network effects working in its favor, already 
> > runs all the stuff you want and almost certainly runs it better than any 
> > other platform, and has a fully functional 100% free tier that allows 
> > commercial use if you're on a tight budget.
> Well, it sure doesn't run the "stuff" my customer(s) need. They have been 
> looking. It ain't there.
> > Given the odds are so heavily stacked against OpenVMS, why is VSI 
> > putting up roadblocks?
> Good question ...

Growing OpenVMS will mostly mean selling it to organisations who aren't currently
using OpenVMS, have no investment in custom OpenVMS software, have quite
possibly never even heard of OpenVMS or assume it went extinct long ago, 
and are probably running their current workload on Linux. And Linux will
probably do the job fine for whatever new project they might consider OpenVMS
for. If they're paying for linux at all, they might be paying under $1k/year/server
(based on their online stores, Redhat Enterprise Server starts at US$349 and 
Ubuntu Pro somewhere around $225-500).

What does OpenVMS bring to the table that makes it worth considering for
these organisations? Is it perhaps cheaper to license than RHEL? Is it easier to
develop for? Have some "killer app"? Is its clustering actually better than the
approaches typically taken on Linux to achieve the same tasks?

What *could* OpenVMS bring to the table to make it worth considering if 
enough development effort was applied to the right projects?