[Info-vax] Python for x86?

[Dave Froble]

On 4/17/2023 8:39 AM, bill wrote:
> On 4/17/2023 8:15 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-04-14, bill <bill.gunshannon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 4/14/2023 1:46 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point is that Python has a major thing going for it in that it is
>>>> relatively easy to learn and use by people who are not professional
>>>> programmers or professional sysadmins.
>>>
>>> And if all there was to programming was syntax that might be a good
>>> thing.  But it isn't and having all these totally unqualified asses
>>> writing "programs" is certainly not a good thing.
>>>
>>
>> That is a totally out of touch and _extremely_ elitist thing to say Bill.
>
> Really?  Do you apply the same opinion to doctors?  Lawyers?
> The investment bankers handling your retirement money?  How
> about the mechanic who's going to work on your Tesla or Porsche?
>
> There is much more to programming than just knowing the syntax
> of a language.
>
>>
>> We are talking about applications and areas that have skilled domain
>> knowledge experts, but who are not computer programmers. What you
>> appear to be saying is that these people are not allowed to use their
>> expertise until they become C or C++ experts.
>
> No, what I am saying is they should be coordinating with someone
> skilled in programming to get the job done.  Remember a language
> called Pilot?  How about Hypertalk?  These were going to take the
> task of programming out of the hands of programmer and put it in
> the hands of elementary school teachers.  How'd that work out?
>
>>
>> Python is being used to allow these people to make full of their
>> specialised knowledge without having to learn C or C++.
>
> So you would be OK with the guy who fixes lawnmowers using his
> "specialized skills" to fix your Cadilac Escalade?  After all,
> their both just devices with ICE.
>
>>
>> Also, given the interactive nature of many of these applications, Python is
>> way more suited than C or C++ anyway, at least when it comes to initially
>> exploring a problem.
>
> Yeah, well, I don;'t agree with that either, but that is another
> problem entirely.
>
>>
>> Besides, how would you even _use_ C or C++ as a scripting language
>> in (for example) Blender anyway ?
>
> Any task you can do with a scripting language you can do with a real
> language.  Picking the right language for the job is part of what used
> to be software engineering.  But then, if your not going to have an
> engineer design and build your software.  Let's apply that to other
> tasks like bridges.  I can build nice bridges with Lego blocks so I
> should be able to design and build the next big highway bridge.
>
>
> I really miss the days before software engineering when we had
> domain specific languages and program were actually designed to
> accomplish specific tasks.  Oh wait, we have Agile now and there
> is no longer a need for a design because reaching an endpoint is
> no longer required.
>
> bill
>

Gotta say, I'm 100% with Bill on this subject.  Yes, the user knows what is 
needed.  But the user may not understand subtle issues.  Case in point.

In CODIS we've provided what I'll call web services.  May not meet Jan Erik's 
definition of a web services, but they do the job.  One allowed a socket 
connection to inquire about inventory availability.  Someone setting up a web 
based "shopping cart" could invoke the service to get the availability of 
products.  Now, there is a bit of overhead in the inquiry.  Ask for a socket 
connection, do the handshake stuff, send the inquiry, receive the data, and then 
break down the connection.  One web "programmer" managed to just about drag the 
entire application to a halt.  He was looking for the availability of thousands 
of products.  And so issued thousands of connections.  Lots of overhead.  The 
designer of the web service understood what could be needed, and set up the 
design to allow thousands of products to be requested in one connection.  Note, 
this was well documented.  However, the user didn't do the research, just did 
what he needed, and didn't worry about the overall task.  That's what happens 
when some hacker who doesn't understand, or care about, the overall task throws 
together something.

-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef at tsoft-inc.com
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