[Info-vax] RMS intro

[Dan Cross]

In article <un1uj4$2raer$1 at dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo at nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 20:56:56 -0000 (UTC), Dan Cross wrote:
>
>> In article <un1s48$2r0sq$1 at dont-email.me>,
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo at nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 19:41:21 -0000 (UTC), Dan Cross wrote:
>>>
>>>> Furthermore, the rate of change in Linux is high; following along from
>>>> outside is fraught.
>>>
>>>Strange, isn't it: Microsoft must have access to at least a couple of
>>>orders of magnitude greater development resources than that available to
>>>the Linux kernel project,
>> 
>> Almost certainly the inverse is true.
>
>Yet you yourself have already admitted the opposite.

I don't believe I have.  Perhaps you could tell me where you
think I did?

>> Don't sell Microsoft short: their kernel engineers are first-rate and
>> incredibly sharp.
>
>Maybe not quite so sharp;

I've worked closely with at least six engineers who worked on
the Windows kernel.  I can assure you that they are excellent,
and based on what they told me, they were representative of
most Windows kernel people.

I recongize that's anecdotal, but I see no disconfirming
evidence.

>else why can’t they figure out how to get 
>select(2)/poll(2) working with pipes <https://docs.python.org/3/library/
>select.html>?

Probably because they started out with a very different system
architecture and din't care about implementing Unix interfaces
at the time, and now have to retrofit it onto a very large
existing codebase and that's kind of a niche use case.

I'm curious: have you ever actually had a serious technical
conversation with someone who's worked on Windows?  Did you ask
them this question, and if so, what was their answer?

>That is the one irritating reason why users of Python 
>asyncio on Windows have to make a choice between two different, partially-
>overlapping event-loop implementations, neither of which is really a 
>general solution <https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-
>eventloop.html#event-loop-implementations>.

When you write that about select/poll and pipes and that being
an "irritating reason" for a more general issue, that seems
specious.  Different systems do things differently; sadly Python
exposes that to the programmer.  Oh well, but that's about par
for the course.

>> On the other hand, don't look at Linux with rose-colored glasses.  The
>> idea of the lone Linux kernel hacker independently building something
>> that rivals commercial vendors with nothing more than a bag of dorittos
>> and bottle of Jolt is a distant memory.
>
>It still happens. Look at who created WireGuard, just for a recent 
>example.

What about WireGuard?  The implementation was funded.

Anyway, anecdotal evidence, at best, I'm afraid.  I'm using
conversations with primary sources for my assertion (Ts'o et
al).

	- Dan C.