From darcygm at QNET.COM  Tue Aug  2 01:36:11 2005
From: darcygm at QNET.COM (Gary M. Darcy)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 22:36:11 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] (Reminder) National Square Dance Directory Deadline
Message-ID: <42EEA3DB.29715.162CEC@localhost>

Here's something that is worth reminding ALL square dance clubs about:

------- Forwarded message follows -------

   Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 02:53:43 -0400
   From: Mike Gormley <WA8VEC at ARRL.net>
Subject: National Square Dance Directory Deadline

Just a reminder, the deadline for new  listings and changes for your club to the 
National Square Dance Directory is August 15th.  

I don't have any stock in the directory, but have used it often and find information to 
be out of date at times.  I am trying to increase my odds by reminding everybody.  

Mike Gormley  


------- End of forwarded message -------  






From cmbaker at tiac.net  Sat Aug 13 12:50:28 2005
From: cmbaker at tiac.net (Clark Baker)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:50:28 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Re: [sd-callers] Thumb wheel
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bf2312c6171c@[209.52.197.57]>
References: <a05100302bf2312c6171c@[209.52.197.57]>
Message-ID: <8a479a619e06f24cc5dbf2f85719c79c@tiac.net>

On the Square Dance calling mailing list we have been having a 
discussion of the thumb wheel on the mike handle which allows the 
caller to turn the music level up or down while his voice remains the 
same.  Some callers also do this with a hand on the turntable's music 
volume control.

The discussion centers around the proper use of this feature, with some 
feeling that it is abused, perhaps abused by most callers.

In order to gather some date, I have created a poll about the thumb 
wheel.  Please take the brief poll.  If you are a dancer, we want your 
opinions.  Just don't answer the questions that only make sense if you 
call.  Callers, we want your opinions, both when you are dancing to 
others and when you are calling.

http://www.misterpoll.com/588748608.html

I will post the results in a few days.

--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker at tiac.net




From pete241 at pacbell.net  Sat Aug 13 14:09:34 2005
From: pete241 at pacbell.net (Pete Herman)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:09:34 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Re: [sd-callers] Thumb wheel
References: <a05100302bf2312c6171c@[209.52.197.57]>
	<8a479a619e06f24cc5dbf2f85719c79c@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <002201c5a032$2c3ab0e0$6af67643@PetesComputer>

Hi Clark -

I'm answering your poll knowing that I will cancel out the vote that's 
probably already arrived from Williams Lake, British Columbia.

As a dancer, I think it's fine if the caller uses the thumb wheel during a 
tip.   Actually, I find it sort of interesting.  Many of my most favorite 
callers use it very frequently.

As a caller, I rarely, if ever, use it.  Why?  don't ask, I do not have a 
reason.

Pete Herman


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clark Baker" <cmbaker at tiac.net>
To: "sd-callers" <sd-callers at all8.com>
Cc: "This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD" <Squaredancing at rbnsn.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: [Squaredancing] Re: [sd-callers] Thumb wheel


> On the Square Dance calling mailing list we have been having a discussion 
> of the thumb wheel on the mike handle which allows the caller to turn the 
> music level up or down while his voice remains the same.  Some callers 
> also do this with a hand on the turntable's music volume control.
>
> The discussion centers around the proper use of this feature, with some 
> feeling that it is abused, perhaps abused by most callers.
>
> In order to gather some date, I have created a poll about the thumb wheel. 
> Please take the brief poll.  If you are a dancer, we want your opinions. 
> Just don't answer the questions that only make sense if you call. 
> Callers, we want your opinions, both when you are dancing to others and 
> when you are calling.
>
> http://www.misterpoll.com/588748608.html
>
> I will post the results in a few days.
>
> --
> Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
> cmbaker at tiac.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
> 





From M0220sr at aol.com  Tue Aug 16 00:27:36 2005
From: M0220sr at aol.com (M0220sr at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:27:36 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject: Roughness in dancing
Message-ID: <78.7928c65d.3032c538@aol.com>


Why is it that some dancers feel the need to "arm wrestle" when doing a Swing 
Thru  or other types of   arm turns?

Our club dances "hands-up" (waves, etc.).  Invariably there will be one man, 
perhaps two, per night in the hall that insists in trying to arm wrestle with 
you in the act of completing a Swing Thru and/or similar movements.  He can't 
just make contact, walk forward and complete the 180-degree turn and release.  
He has clamp onto your hand and apply an abundance of pressure on the turn 
usually pushing your arm back and out of the way.  This makes it much more 
difficult to complete the simple movement.

This same type of person will also force a lady to twirl even though she has 
her arm down and not wishing to do so.

Does anyone have a similar occurrence and perhaps a solution to this problem?

Richard M.



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From M0220sr at aol.com  Tue Aug 16 00:57:48 2005
From: M0220sr at aol.com (M0220sr at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:57:48 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject:  When in Rome
Message-ID: <15b.57084a69.3032cc4c@aol.com>

Subject:  When in Rome

Our club is in an area of the state we are in where it is known that clubs in 
our general area dance "hands up" (waves, etc.) .  When our club dancers 
visit other clubs  in our same area (and when they visit us...) we know that they 
dance hands-up and everyone has fun.  

Dancers outside of our general area were taught by their square dance 
teachers the fore-arm  (and sometimes the handhold) grip for waves, etc.  

We generally have special dances once a month. Out of town callers and cuers. 
 People visit from other states as well as from one large city to our south.  
>From the city to our south, whose dancers primarily use the forearm grip, 
dancers come and generally have a pretty good time at our special dances.

However, there is just one tiny aggravating thing they do....they want to 
force you to use their style of grip instead of adapting to the hands-up position 
like we do.  They come to you to do an arm turn or a Swing Thru and will 
bring your hand down into a forearm grip as much as saying, "You're doing it wrong 
and I am more than glad to wrench your arm into the proper position for us to 
get through the Swing Thru....and DON'T DO IT AGAIN!"

Why is that?  

The visitor is traveling into your area, visiting your club, dancing with 
your club members and other visitors from our area...but they insist on trying to 
force you to dance their way of dancing.  When my wife and I visit other 
clubs and/or go to conventions, etc.,  we respect other styles of dancing and look 
for the way that particular club does certain things when dancing. We don't 
force our normal "hands-up" on them, we adapt to their handhold.  It avoids 
awkward situations and the likelihood of having bad feelings.  That usually 
results in that you hope that person never gets into the same square with you 
again...even though it is never said.  Some of the members in our club want to put 
a sign on the front door of our hall announcing to visitors that our club uses 
a hands-up handhold position but others feel it is a losing fight and the 
out-of-town visitors would ignore it anyway.  

I was also taught that you never force a lady to twirl (like some aggressive 
people do) and that if she has her arm down when approaching you don't twirl 
and if she has her arm up, that is your signal that she doesn't mind twirling 
on a Right and Left Grand.  And if you do twirl you don't release her in such a 
manner that she loses her balance and/or goes into orbit or into another 
square.

To summarize....we live by the old adage "When in Rome..."

Richard M.

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From cmbaker at tiac.net  Tue Aug 16 01:12:00 2005
From: cmbaker at tiac.net (Clark Baker)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:12:00 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Thumb wheel poll results
In-Reply-To: <8a479a619e06f24cc5dbf2f85719c79c@tiac.net>
References: <a05100302bf2312c6171c@[209.52.197.57]>
	<8a479a619e06f24cc5dbf2f85719c79c@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <0e0413582f9e3baf1846d3844377bb1e@tiac.net>

The results of the Thumb Wheel Poll can be viewed at: 
http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=588748608

If you meant to take it but never got around to it, you can do so at: 
http://www.misterpoll.com/poll.mpl?id=588748608

Only 6% feel that use of the thumb wheel is almost always a problem.

13% don't use the thumb wheel, 6% don't have one, and only 6% use it 
often.  Of the people who use it occasionally, 30% use it to boost the 
music (like on a right and left grand) and 24% use it to lower the 
music when they give a command (I do both of these).

When they move the thumb wheel, 4% move it as far as it can go, 40% 
move it only a little, and 56% move it a thumb stroke.

3% said that they thought they could improve their usage of the thumb 
wheel and that they would make the effort. 28% thought the were doing 
just fine, 20% thought they could make slight improvements and 27% 
thought that maybe they could make an improvement.

My bottom line is that this is an area that should be mentioned in 
caller school and once a year at your caller meeting, but is is not an 
area that has a lot of problems and it doesn't need much attention.

--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker at tiac.net




From WA8VEC at ARRL.NET  Tue Aug 16 02:55:39 2005
From: WA8VEC at ARRL.NET (Mike Gormley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:55:39 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject: Roughness in dancing
In-Reply-To: <78.7928c65d.3032c538@aol.com>
References: <78.7928c65d.3032c538@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43018DEB.70802@ARRL.NET>

M0220sr at aol.com wrote:

>
> Why is it that some dancers feel the need to "arm wrestle" when doing 
> a Swing Thru  or other types of   arm turns?
>
> Our club dances "hands-up" (waves, etc.).  Invariably there will be 
> one man, perhaps two, per night in the hall that insists in trying to 
> arm wrestle with you in the act of completing a Swing Thru and/or 
> similar movements.  He can't just make contact, walk forward and 
> complete the 180-degree turn and release.  He has clamp onto your hand 
> and apply an abundance of pressure on the turn usually pushing your 
> arm back and out of the way.  This makes it much more difficult to 
> complete the simple movement.


As a caller, when I get a report of something like this, I have the 
class make a "fist" just before stepping to a wave.  They touch "fist to 
fist" and then do a swing thru like that.  It teaches that all you have 
to do is "touch" but not "grab and squeeze".    You could also use just 
one finger  You can use the "fist" in either the Callerlab recommended 
"hands up" wave or the "regional difference" of forearm grips.    Once 
they get the idea, go back to the proper hand hold.

>
> This same type of person will also force a lady to twirl even though 
> she has her arm down and not wishing to do so.
>
> Does anyone have a similar occurrence and perhaps a solution to this 
> problem?
>
> Richard M.
>

The problems mentioned are examples of there not being enough time to 
teach everything in one season.  Allow your caller the time to properly 
teach the class.

Mike Gormley
Ohio (for now)
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From ljknews at mac.com  Tue Aug 16 07:54:23 2005
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:54:23 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject:  When in Rome
In-Reply-To: <15b.57084a69.3032cc4c@aol.com>
References: <15b.57084a69.3032cc4c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f05bf2782c5a10b@[192.168.1.254]>

At 12:57 AM -0400 8/16/05, M0220sr at aol.com wrote:

> However, there is just one tiny aggravating thing they do....they want to
>force you to use their style of grip instead of adapting to the hands-up
>position like we do.  They come to you to do an arm turn or a Swing Thru
>and will bring your hand down into a forearm grip as much as saying,
>"You're doing it wrong and I am more than glad to wrench your arm into the
>proper position for us to get through the Swing Thru....and DON'T DO IT
>AGAIN!"
>
> Why is that? 

I have been square dancing in the Boston area for 4 years now,
and to me "hands up" Swing Thru is just a rumor.  Some clubs
and dancers in this area do a "hands up" Touch A Quarter and
some (those who dance Mainstream and Plus with Advanced and
Challenge dancers) do a normal (to me) Touch a Quarter.  When
the two types meet, somebody adapts.  But conceptually doing
a "hands up" Swing Thru seems quite hard to me.

Of course wrenching someone else's arm is always wrong.

> I was also taught that you never force a lady to twirl (like some
>aggressive people do) and that if she has her arm down when approaching
>you don't twirl and if she has her arm up, that is your signal that she
>doesn't mind twirling on a Right and Left Grand.  And if you do twirl you
>don't release her in such a manner that she loses her balance and/or goes
>into orbit or into another square.

My training with the "Tug and Twirl" is that there is a little tug
between dancers on the right hand (partner and opposite) for that
flourish.  I have never seen an "arm up" position on a Right and
Left Grand.
-- 
Larry Kilgallen



From M0220sr at aol.com  Tue Aug 16 09:13:25 2005
From: M0220sr at aol.com (M0220sr at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:13:25 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject:  When in Rome
Message-ID: <c.4af4e763.30334075@aol.com>

My training with the "Tug and Twirl" is that there is a little tug
between dancers on the right hand (partner and opposite) for that
flourish.  I have never seen an "arm up" position on a Right and
Left Grand.
-- 
Larry Kilgallen


hehe...er...clarification:

What I meant is that the lady has her hand extended to you (palm facing away 
from her) about shoulder height.  If she normally twirls on a RLG then she is 
giving you the signal that she expects you to twirl her.  If I don't see that 
I normally just do an easy pull-by motion.  Actually, the man doesn't really 
have to do anything on a twirl as all he is doing is providing support for the 
lady as *she* twirls under the joined hands.  My wife has arthitic hands and 
has to announce before the tip even starts not to twirl her.  Some men are very 
rough and I've heard several ladies at times complain that they have  a lot 
of pain in their hands afterwards from those who like to twirl regardless of 
the situation.

You would normally think square dancing is a fun activity and it is for the 
most part.  It's just unfortunate that some people get their jollies in a 
square by making it known to the opposite sex that *they* are in control and you 
WILL abide by what they want to do. At that point other people get that "Oh 
yeah?" attitude and then the tip is nothing but a wrestling match or a match of 
wills set to music.

As far as the hands-up on Swing Thru's, our club adapted the 
CALLERLAB-approved style of handholds long ago. It works for us.  We just feel that when we 
have visitors, it is the visitors who should not mind using what the dancers in 
our area use for a handhold in a wave instead of trying to make us dance like 
they do when they are home.  

I like the idea of using hands-down dancing A/C and can see that it would 
produce less stress on the shoulders, etc.  I'll have to check with the A/C 
dancers in our area and ask what they do.

Thanks for the info.

Richard M.
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From ljknews at mac.com  Tue Aug 16 09:24:42 2005
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:24:42 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject:  When in Rome
In-Reply-To: <c.4af4e763.30334075@aol.com>
References: <c.4af4e763.30334075@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f06bf279840ad13@[192.168.1.254]>

At 9:13 AM -0400 8/16/05, M0220sr at aol.com wrote:
> My training with the "Tug and Twirl" is that there is a little tug
> between dancers on the right hand (partner and opposite) for that
> flourish.  I have never seen an "arm up" position on a Right and
> Left Grand.
> --
> Larry Kilgallen
>
>
>
> hehe...er...clarification:
>
> What I meant is that the lady has her hand extended to you (palm facing
>away from her) about shoulder height.  If she normally twirls on a RLG
>then she is giving you the signal that she expects you to twirl her.  If I
>don't see that I normally just do an easy pull-by motion.

Ok, I have never seen that.  In this area Tech Squares does a "Tug and
Twirl" the way I described.  That included on a Non-Banner Raid to the
Hayloft Steppers this past Friday.  Those Hayloft Steppers who chose to
play that game could signal their interest with the Tug.

> You would normally think square dancing is a fun activity and it is for
>the most part.  It's just unfortunate that some people get their jollies
>in a square by making it known to the opposite sex that *they* are in
>control and you WILL abide by what they want to do. At that point other
>people get that "Oh yeah?" attitude and then the tip is nothing but a
>wrestling match or a match of wills set to music.

I have not seen that in any guise.

> As far as the hands-up on Swing Thru's, our club adapted the
>CALLERLAB-approved style of handholds long ago. It works for us.  We just
>feel that when we have visitors, it is the visitors who should not mind
>using what the dancers in our area use for a handhold in a wave instead of
>trying to make us dance like they do when they are home. 

But it is hard to do something with which you have absolutely no experience.
The average dancer does not read Callerlab definitions to figure out what
people do differently in other areas.
-- 
Larry Kilgallen



From WA8VEC at ARRL.NET  Tue Aug 16 03:04:56 2005
From: WA8VEC at ARRL.NET (Mike Gormley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:04:56 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject:  When in Rome
In-Reply-To: <15b.57084a69.3032cc4c@aol.com>
References: <15b.57084a69.3032cc4c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43019018.2040101@ARRL.NET>

M0220sr at aol.com wrote:

> Subject:  When in Rome
>
> Our club is in an area of the state we are in where it is known that 
> clubs in our general area dance "hands up" (waves, etc.) .  When our 
> club dancers visit other clubs  in our same area (and when they visit 
> us...) we know that they dance hands-up and everyone has fun. 
>
> Dancers outside of our general area were taught by their square dance 
> teachers the fore-arm  (and sometimes the handhold) grip for waves, etc. 
>
> We generally have special dances once a month. Out of town callers and 
> cuers.  People visit from other states as well as from one large city 
> to our south.  From the city to our south, whose dancers primarily use 
> the forearm grip, dancers come and generally have a pretty good time 
> at our special dances.
>
> However, there is just one tiny aggravating thing they do....they want 
> to force you to use their style of grip instead of adapting to the 
> hands-up position like we do.  They come to you to do an arm turn or a 
> Swing Thru and will bring your hand down into a forearm grip as much 
> as saying, "You're doing it wrong and I am more than glad to wrench 
> your arm into the proper position for us to get through the Swing 
> Thru....and DON'T DO IT AGAIN!"
>
> Why is that? 

Callers are not allowed enough time to properly teach the class, which 
should include "the rules of visitation".  Allow your caller more class 
time to teach these things in the beginning classes and to stress things 
other than just the calls.

>
> The visitor is traveling into your area, visiting your club, dancing 
> with your club members and other visitors from our area...but they 
> insist on trying to force you to dance their way of dancing.  When my 
> wife and I visit other clubs and/or go to conventions, etc.,  we 
> respect other styles of dancing and look for the way that particular 
> club does certain things when dancing. We don't force our normal 
> "hands-up" on them, we adapt to their handhold.  It avoids awkward 
> situations and the likelihood of having bad feelings.  That usually 
> results in that you hope that person never gets into the same square 
> with you again...even though it is never said.  Some of the members in 
> our club want to put a sign on the front door of our hall announcing 
> to visitors that our club uses a hands-up handhold position but others 
> feel it is a losing fight and the out-of-town visitors would ignore it 
> anyway. 
>
> I was also taught that you never force a lady to twirl (like some 
> aggressive people do) and that if she has her arm down when 
> approaching you don't twirl and if she has her arm up, that is your 
> signal that she doesn't mind twirling on a Right and Left Grand.  And 
> if you do twirl you don't release her in such a manner that she loses 
> her balance and/or goes into orbit or into another square.
>

> To summarize....we live by the old adage "When in Rome..."
>
That's the general rule.

> Richard M.
>
Mike Gormley
Ohio (Until October)
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From sdcaller1 at sympatico.ca  Tue Aug 16 13:31:07 2005
From: sdcaller1 at sympatico.ca (Caller-G)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:31:07 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject: Roughness in dancing
References: <78.7928c65d.3032c538@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004901c5a288$4a9507e0$ec6bfea9@GEOFF>

Primarily because they haven't been "corrected" when it first showed up!

It's one of the key teaching points I focus on with new dancers & often have to 'repeat' (remind) with the more experienced ones. 
For Ocean Waves.. palm to palm "contact", no thumbs, no grips, just small pressure to say "I'm here".   If you don't insist on 'contact only',
then someone can get hurt if a swing thru is started incorrectly & someone is "hanging  on" !
I tell dancers if they encounter a 'thumb grabber', then pull your own thumb across your palm so they can't grab it ! (if it ain't there, they can't grab it).
For arm turns, 'contact' only, again no grips etc....

As a Caller I have to remain ever vigilant for this on the dance floor & correct it as I find it.  I will not 'single out' a particular dancer
in 'public' but will remind "all" about the correct way of doing it.  If the problem persists with the same dancer, then I will have a 
"one-on-one" discussion with that dancer to get the problem corrected.
With the age of our dancers being generally in the over 50 range, dancers can be hurt, either by a shoulder wrench &/or squeezed
hands that suffer from arthritis, and that removes all the enjoyment for them.

For the "twirlers", I tell the ladies 2 things - if you don't want to be twirled, then push the contact hand down.  If that doesn't work,
look him in the eye and tell him "I don't want to be twirled".  And again, if the problem continues, talk to me & I'll deal with it.

And, to keep it "light" with new dancers, when teaching these points the first time around, I tell them that if their hand gets
squeezed, that they have my "expressed permission" to scream & drop to one knee.... they'll usually only have to do that once
to get the point across !    In my 8 years of teaching new dancers, that hasn't happened yet, but I have had to 'talk to' more
than one dancer about being rough.  Goes with the Caller job description I guess?

If you go to my website & click on "Callers Corner", there's an article there that I've written for our local Square Dance Magazine
that all our local dancers get the chance to read.  It never hurts to repeat the message!

Geoff Clarke,
Carleton Place, Ontario,
Canada
Web: http://callerg.squaresandrounds.com
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: M0220sr at aol.com 
  To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:27 AM
  Subject: [Squaredancing] Subject: Roughness in dancing



  Why is it that some dancers feel the need to "arm wrestle" when doing a Swing Thru  or other types of   arm turns?

  Our club dances "hands-up" (waves, etc.).  Invariably there will be one man, perhaps two, per night in the hall that insists in trying to arm wrestle with you in the act of completing a Swing Thru and/or similar movements.  He can't just make contact, walk forward and complete the 180-degree turn and release.  He has clamp onto your hand and apply an abundance of pressure on the turn usually pushing your arm back and out of the way.  This makes it much more difficult to complete the simple movement.

  This same type of person will also force a lady to twirl even though she has her arm down and not wishing to do so.

  Does anyone have a similar occurrence and perhaps a solution to this problem?

  Richard M.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From cmbaker at tiac.net  Sat Aug 27 18:38:54 2005
From: cmbaker at tiac.net (Clark Baker)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:38:54 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Is MWSD in trouble?
Message-ID: <7701d7e0247ee9466b319e11bcf56402@tiac.net>

Over the course of 12 years Square Dancing in Springfield, MA grows to 
40 clubs (with about 15 in Hartford, CT).  Some of the larger clubs are 
dancing as many as 35 squares at an average dance, with greater 
attendance for out-of-the-area guest callers, and many other clubs 
dance 15 to 20 squares regularly.  Beginner classes are conducted each 
year by each club, and twice yearly by many. Class size runs up to 15 
squares in some cases.

Two years later it suddenly became almost impossible to recruit enough 
new beginners to make it worthwhile holding a class, and attendance at 
club dances drops alarmingly. Several clubs disband, many gave up their 
classes, and many combined with other clubs for teaching. The two 
largest, most successful clubs in the Springfield area can only round 
up 9 couples for a class between them both. Attendance at all club 
dances is at an all-time low, with only 1/3 to 1/4 of the previous 
attendence.  What went wrong?

Perhaps your area is facing a similar problem.  Since sometime in the 
1980's I have heard people say that square dancing is declining or that 
square dancing is in trouble.  Others say that it is OK, or just a 
cycle.  By the 1990's most were convinced that something isn't right 
and that steps must be taken.  However, what to do?  Callerlab fiddled 
with the lists.  Not much changed.  Year by year we have fewer dancers 
and fewer clubs and the dance we do have are older.

What I find fascinating is that the first two paragraphs of this e-mail 
were written almost forty years ago.  Not only that, but the author 
described the current problems in great detail and proposed solutions 
in even greater detail.  The first problem he faced was that no one 
would listen to him.  Next, those that did thought he was wrong.  
Finally, those who listened and thought he was right were unwilling to 
make any changes!

With his permission I have posted his analysis of the problems at 
http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker/western-style-in-trouble.html  I would be 
interested in any discussions it engenders.

--------

Finally, if you have an interest in this area, and if you live in New 
England I suggest that you attend the 2005 NECCA Clinic on Sunday, 
September 18 at the Holiday Inn on Lincoln St in Worcester, MA.  Lubch 
at 12:30 and talk from 2 to 4pm.  The topic is

 From Traditional to Contra to Modern Western Square Dancing -- How to 
be successful

Our guest speaker is Ralph Sweet

We welcome all callers and dancers to this event.

See http://www.squaredance.ws/NSD_CVR.gif

--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker at tiac.net




From ljknews at mac.com  Mon Aug 29 15:12:45 2005
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:12:45 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Re: [sd-callers] Is MWSD in trouble?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20050829145354.02c6cda8@po2.bbn.com>
References: <7701d7e0247ee9466b319e11bcf56402@tiac.net>
	<6.1.0.6.2.20050829145354.02c6cda8@po2.bbn.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f08bf390d7ab6d0@[192.168.1.254]>

At 3:00 PM -0400 8/29/05, Kathy Godfrey wrote:
> The discussion about the proliferating of square dance
> callers adding to the problem is something I hadn't
> considered as a serious issue before (I don't think
> it is one now in the way that Sweet describes,
> if only because there is now a de facto barrier
> to entry that didn't exist back then--finding
> enough bodies to call to as a new caller!).
> 
> But the phenomenon that Sweet describes is
> well known in economics--in an efficient
> market, with low barriers to entry, any
> arising opportunity to make money with
> relatively little effort will attract
> potential exploiters until the market
> achieves equilibrium again

Neither of the clubs where I watch the hiring process just looks
to hire a caller willy-nilly or at the absolute cheapest rate.
Hiring a guest caller always requires a champion within the club
who has danced to that caller, likes that caller, etc.

So for new callers entering the market there must be some special
value that makes them attractive other than price.  Choice of music,
adherence to "standard applications" (or not), style of entertainment
(the words the callers says that are not in the definitions) all play
a role in these decisions.
-- 
Larry Kilgallen