From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com Tue Jul 3 12:13:45 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:13:45 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
Since this list has been very quiet lately, maybe we can get a
discussion going about the recent NSDC in Charlotte, NC.
There has been a lively discussion in the SD-Callers list about the
"Dress Code violation incident" in the C1 hall.
Overall, I thought it was a pretty good convention from a dancers
point of view.
On the positive side:
The convention center is small, so the convention filled it nicely.
The food was good and reasonably priced. There was an $8 buffet for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I never saw the food run out completely.
The sound was good with little bleeding between halls.
The education area was easy to get to and well signed.
The attendance was up about 10% over last year. Total: 8021. (I have a
web site that shows the attendance over the years
Now some negatives:
The rubberized plastic floor that was put over the carpet was hard to
dance on at first and it rippled in spots. I heard that some round
dancers tripped on the ripples.
I heard that the transportation provided was pretty bad I didn't use
it, so I can't comment on it. I walked the few blocks to/from my hotel.
The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
PM.
The hall used for the exhibitions and ceremonies did not have bleacher
seating set up. This made it very difficult to really see the
exhibitions and the Parade of States.
The signs for some of the halls, especially those which were created
by dividing big halls, was very poor and it was hard to figure out
which hall was which.
Does anyone else have anything to contribute??
Ken Robinson
Hillsborough, NJ / Baltimore, MD
From brucemorgan at embarqmail.com Tue Jul 3 12:29:50 2007
From: brucemorgan at embarqmail.com (Bruce Morgan)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:29:50 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
Message-ID: <005a01c7bd8f$6132a330$2397e990$@com>
I thought it was a great convention. The sound in the Live Band hall was
very bad on Wednesday night but was a lot better the remainder of the
convention. The music in the Live Band Hall was just too loud most all the
time. You had to really strain to hear the callers over and above the Band.
It was nice that they had the convention center people manning the
escalators so that in order to go down to them main dance halls you had to
have a Convention Badge on. This eliminated a lot of non dancers just
milling around looking. They were able to watch from window on the main
floor.
The food was excellent. We even went to the mall across the street from the
convention center and ate 2 nights. This place had at least 3 places that
were open almost all the times that the convention was open. We really
enjoyed it. There were a few fast food type places that were not open all
the times. They were geared toward the working people. Since our activity
is held almost at night these places were closed when we needed them the
most. It would have been nice if they had been told and could have stayed
open. I am sure they would have been busy.
All in all, it was a great convention. As for the dress code. I think it
was a BIG mistake to ask people to leave because they weren't dressed as
required. The, as required, is not spelled out so that everybody knows what
is required. If we are going by the CallerLab description then most people
that were asked to leave probably met that requirement. If this is going to
be enforced at future conventions then it needs to be stated well up front
as to what everybody is to wear. If it is good for the dancers then the
callers, cuers, etc. need to be held to the same standards. They are not
special people. They should not get special treatment.
Bruce Morgan
Orlando, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:14 PM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Since this list has been very quiet lately, maybe we can get a
discussion going about the recent NSDC in Charlotte, NC.
There has been a lively discussion in the SD-Callers list about the
"Dress Code violation incident" in the C1 hall.
Overall, I thought it was a pretty good convention from a dancers
point of view.
On the positive side:
The convention center is small, so the convention filled it nicely.
The food was good and reasonably priced. There was an $8 buffet for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I never saw the food run out completely.
The sound was good with little bleeding between halls.
The education area was easy to get to and well signed.
The attendance was up about 10% over last year. Total: 8021. (I have a
web site that shows the attendance over the years
Now some negatives:
The rubberized plastic floor that was put over the carpet was hard to
dance on at first and it rippled in spots. I heard that some round
dancers tripped on the ripples.
I heard that the transportation provided was pretty bad I didn't use
it, so I can't comment on it. I walked the few blocks to/from my hotel.
The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
PM.
The hall used for the exhibitions and ceremonies did not have bleacher
seating set up. This made it very difficult to really see the
exhibitions and the Parade of States.
The signs for some of the halls, especially those which were created
by dividing big halls, was very poor and it was hard to figure out
which hall was which.
Does anyone else have anything to contribute??
Ken Robinson
Hillsborough, NJ / Baltimore, MD
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
From LKJ at DJJ.com Tue Jul 3 13:51:38 2007
From: LKJ at DJJ.com (Linda Jones - LKJ)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:51:38 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <005a01c7bd8f$6132a330$2397e990$@com>
Message-ID:
So what IS the dress code for the convention? We are hoping go in the
next year or two and I want to dress appropriately.
Thanks!
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:30 PM
To: Square Dance Group
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
I thought it was a great convention. The sound in the Live Band hall
was very bad on Wednesday night but was a lot better the remainder of
the convention. The music in the Live Band Hall was just too loud most
all the time. You had to really strain to hear the callers over and
above the Band. It was nice that they had the convention center people
manning the escalators so that in order to go down to them main dance
halls you had to have a Convention Badge on. This eliminated a lot of
non dancers just milling around looking. They were able to watch from
window on the main floor.
The food was excellent. We even went to the mall across the street from
the convention center and ate 2 nights. This place had at least 3
places that were open almost all the times that the convention was open.
We really enjoyed it. There were a few fast food type places that were
not open all the times. They were geared toward the working people.
Since our activity is held almost at night these places were closed when
we needed them the most. It would have been nice if they had been told
and could have stayed open. I am sure they would have been busy.
All in all, it was a great convention. As for the dress code. I think
it was a BIG mistake to ask people to leave because they weren't dressed
as required. The, as required, is not spelled out so that everybody
knows what is required. If we are going by the CallerLab description
then most people that were asked to leave probably met that requirement.
If this is going to be enforced at future conventions then it needs to
be stated well up front as to what everybody is to wear. If it is good
for the dancers then the callers, cuers, etc. need to be held to the
same standards. They are not special people. They should not get
special treatment.
Bruce Morgan
Orlando, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:14 PM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Since this list has been very quiet lately, maybe we can get a
discussion going about the recent NSDC in Charlotte, NC.
There has been a lively discussion in the SD-Callers list about the
"Dress Code violation incident" in the C1 hall.
Overall, I thought it was a pretty good convention from a dancers
point of view.
On the positive side:
The convention center is small, so the convention filled it nicely.
The food was good and reasonably priced. There was an $8 buffet for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I never saw the food run out completely.
The sound was good with little bleeding between halls.
The education area was easy to get to and well signed.
The attendance was up about 10% over last year. Total: 8021. (I have a
web site that shows the attendance over the years
Now some negatives:
The rubberized plastic floor that was put over the carpet was hard to
dance on at first and it rippled in spots. I heard that some round
dancers tripped on the ripples.
I heard that the transportation provided was pretty bad I didn't use
it, so I can't comment on it. I walked the few blocks to/from my hotel.
The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
PM.
The hall used for the exhibitions and ceremonies did not have bleacher
seating set up. This made it very difficult to really see the
exhibitions and the Parade of States.
The signs for some of the halls, especially those which were created
by dividing big halls, was very poor and it was hard to figure out
which hall was which.
Does anyone else have anything to contribute??
Ken Robinson
Hillsborough, NJ / Baltimore, MD
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
From bi434 at hotfootspin.com Tue Jul 3 14:23:35 2007
From: bi434 at hotfootspin.com (Karl Springer)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:23:35 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To:
References: <005a01c7bd8f$6132a330$2397e990$@com>
Message-ID: <468A31B7.16749.104BCA8@bi434.hotfootspin.com>
On 3 Jul 2007 at 13:51 -0400, Linda Jones - LKJ wrote, at least
in part:
> So what IS the dress code for the convention? We are hoping
> go in the next year or two and I want to dress appropriately.
Excerpt from :
NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE GUIDELINES FOR DRESS CODE
AT NATIONAL SQUARE DANCE CONVENTIONS?
1. Square and Round Dance Attire:
* Ladies - Square Dance Dress/Skirt and top with
crinoline slip and pettipants or Prairie Length Dress/Prairie
Skirt and Top with soft slip (no slacks/jeans or shorts on
square or round dance floors).
* Men - Long Sleeve Shirt and Dress Slacks or Clean
Dress Jeans (bolo or square dance tie recommended). (No short
sleeve shirts, T-shirts, shorts on square dance or round dance
floors).
Karl
From brucemorgan at embarqmail.com Tue Jul 3 14:33:47 2007
From: brucemorgan at embarqmail.com (Bruce Morgan)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:33:47 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To:
References: <005a01c7bd8f$6132a330$2397e990$@com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bda0$b2a34510$17e9cf30$@com>
This is from the National Executive Committee web site.
NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE GUIDELINES FOR DRESS CODE
AT NATIONAL SQUARE DANCE CONVENTIONSR
Square and Round Dance Attire:
Ladies - Square Dance Dress/Skirt and top with crinoline slip and pettipants
or Prairie Length Dress/Prairie Skirt and Top with soft slip (no
slacks/jeans or shorts on square or round dance floors).
Men - Long Sleeve Shirt and Dress Slacks or Clean Dress Jeans (bolo or
square dance tie recommended). (No short sleeve shirts, T-shirts, shorts on
square dance or round dance floors).
Contra Dance Attire:
Ladies - Contra length Dress/Skirt and Top or same as square and round dance
attire.
Men - Same as square and round dance attire
Clogging Attire:
Ladies - Clogging Length Dress/Skirt and Top or same as square and round
dance attire except crinoline is optional. Slacks/clean jeans or shorts are
allowed during practice sessions.
Men - Long/Short Sleeve Shirts and Dress Slacks/Jeans (bolo or square dance
tie optional). Shorts and T-shirts allowed during practice sessions.
Country Western Attire:
Ladies/Men - Country Western Outfits or same as square and round dance
attire.
ALL DANCERS WILL BE PERMITTED IN ANY HALL, BUT NEED TO BE DRESSED IN PROPER
ATTIRE.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Linda Jones - LKJ
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:52 PM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
So what IS the dress code for the convention? We are hoping go in the
next year or two and I want to dress appropriately.
Thanks!
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:30 PM
To: Square Dance Group
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
I thought it was a great convention. The sound in the Live Band hall
was very bad on Wednesday night but was a lot better the remainder of
the convention. The music in the Live Band Hall was just too loud most
all the time. You had to really strain to hear the callers over and
above the Band. It was nice that they had the convention center people
manning the escalators so that in order to go down to them main dance
halls you had to have a Convention Badge on. This eliminated a lot of
non dancers just milling around looking. They were able to watch from
window on the main floor.
The food was excellent. We even went to the mall across the street from
the convention center and ate 2 nights. This place had at least 3
places that were open almost all the times that the convention was open.
We really enjoyed it. There were a few fast food type places that were
not open all the times. They were geared toward the working people.
Since our activity is held almost at night these places were closed when
we needed them the most. It would have been nice if they had been told
and could have stayed open. I am sure they would have been busy.
All in all, it was a great convention. As for the dress code. I think
it was a BIG mistake to ask people to leave because they weren't dressed
as required. The, as required, is not spelled out so that everybody
knows what is required. If we are going by the CallerLab description
then most people that were asked to leave probably met that requirement.
If this is going to be enforced at future conventions then it needs to
be stated well up front as to what everybody is to wear. If it is good
for the dancers then the callers, cuers, etc. need to be held to the
same standards. They are not special people. They should not get
special treatment.
Bruce Morgan
Orlando, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:14 PM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Since this list has been very quiet lately, maybe we can get a
discussion going about the recent NSDC in Charlotte, NC.
There has been a lively discussion in the SD-Callers list about the
"Dress Code violation incident" in the C1 hall.
Overall, I thought it was a pretty good convention from a dancers
point of view.
On the positive side:
The convention center is small, so the convention filled it nicely.
The food was good and reasonably priced. There was an $8 buffet for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I never saw the food run out completely.
The sound was good with little bleeding between halls.
The education area was easy to get to and well signed.
The attendance was up about 10% over last year. Total: 8021. (I have a
web site that shows the attendance over the years
Now some negatives:
The rubberized plastic floor that was put over the carpet was hard to
dance on at first and it rippled in spots. I heard that some round
dancers tripped on the ripples.
I heard that the transportation provided was pretty bad I didn't use
it, so I can't comment on it. I walked the few blocks to/from my hotel.
The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
PM.
The hall used for the exhibitions and ceremonies did not have bleacher
seating set up. This made it very difficult to really see the
exhibitions and the Parade of States.
The signs for some of the halls, especially those which were created
by dividing big halls, was very poor and it was hard to figure out
which hall was which.
Does anyone else have anything to contribute??
Ken Robinson
Hillsborough, NJ / Baltimore, MD
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From brucemorgan at embarqmail.com Tue Jul 3 16:19:46 2007
From: brucemorgan at embarqmail.com (Bruce Morgan)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:19:46 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] National Convention Attendance
Message-ID: <001a01c7bdaf$80e0efa0$82a2cee0$@com>
Some years ago the NEC used to publish the attendance records for the
National Convention. Not just a total. They used to break it down by
state, Canada and International. The 1998 Convention in Charlotte was the
last convention that I was able to obtain the number. Does anybody know
where this information can be found?
Bruce
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From sale at new-beat.net Tue Jul 3 16:25:38 2007
From: sale at new-beat.net (sale at new-beat.net)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:25:38 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] New music release on New-Beat
References: <001a01c7bdaf$80e0efa0$82a2cee0$@com>
Message-ID: <01df01c7bdb0$52b95580$0500000a@Kontor>
Welcome to New-Beat!!
Our new release for July 2007 are:
Singing Call
Only You - NB-303 (Vocal By Carsten Nielsen).
Only You - NB-303H (Harmony) (Vocal By Carsten Nielsen, Harmony By Bronc
Wise).
To buy our music, go to www.new-beat.net and press the shopping cart logo on
the left hand side.
Our membership service have now been started - To request information about
this service, or recive a free sample of the note services, please send a
mail to member at new-beat.net
Once again, welcome to New-Beat, and thanks for your support.
The New-Beat Team
Nils, Bronc, James, S?ren & Carsten
www.new-beat.net
From htrost at gmx.de Tue Jul 3 17:37:59 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 23:37:59 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
Message-ID: <468AC1B7.6020306@gmx.de>
Ken et al,
thank you for your report about the 56th Nationals.
My report:
When I arrived at the airport it was nice to find a table who offered
transportation information to the 56th.
Also a good thing was that the airport bus to Uptown was
Again the required dress code led to problems and closed a lot of
dancers out. They required "proper" square dance attire, but forced
dancers to wear "Traditional" attire or leave.
They should accept the definitions for the three attire styles Callerlab
have recommended. Better they should use some more liberal like e.g.
they do recommend dance attire for the dances in the evenings... (and
nor require neither Proper nor Traditional all day).
The International hospitality room was on ground floor, easy to find
from the International attendees like me. And it was the only place I
found where was a water dispenser with purified water. (Almost all water
dispensers in the halls only contain water from the tap whic doesn't
taste well).
Vendors area was smaller than ever.
Dance halls:
Plus with rounds was attended real well.
Plus was attendes well, too.
Mainstream with the live band was overcrowded in the evenings and the
sound was to noisy for my poor ears.
There was a small hall for Line dancing, one for clogging
and one for Contra.
Mainstream with rounds were pretty well attended.
A1 was in a smaller room with often 4-6 squares
A2 was in a larger room for up to 30 squares. A2 room was the 2nd best
attended hall at the Nationals (except the live band).
C1-2-3 was in one small room, usually had up to 4 squares.
Round dance halls were most time full of dancers.
Mainstream with live band was too loud.
Seminars an panels were interesting. Sadly the foldable wall which
separated room -A from room -B doesn't insolate that much from sound
from the room beside.
Heinz
From miatax at comcast.net Tue Jul 3 18:28:17 2007
From: miatax at comcast.net (Bob Ensten)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:28:17 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
Message-ID: <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Robinson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
> Now some negatives:
>
> The rubberized plastic floor that was put over the carpet was hard to
> dance on at first and it rippled in spots. I heard that some round
> dancers tripped on the ripples.
The round and square dancers tripped on the ripples, and the corners of the squares which raised up in some areas. The round dancers have less of a problem since we generally pick up our feet to step. A lot of square dancers were taught to shuffle rather than walk when dancing and have more of a problem.
>
> The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
> fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
> in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
> convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
> PM.
The cafeteria across the street from the convention hall adjusted their hours Thursday, Friday and Saturday and extended their breakfast and lunch hours. They normally closed at 2:30 PM, but for the convnetion they reopened for dinner all three days. The food was good and reasonably priced, but the wait in line was sometines an hour or more. There were at least three other restaurants that I know of within a block of the convention center that were open for dinner.
>
> Ken Robinson
> Hillsborough, NJ / Baltimore, MD
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From Anniebplus at aol.com Tue Jul 3 20:12:59 2007
From: Anniebplus at aol.com (Anniebplus at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:12:59 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID:
I personally don't think they should turn people away if they are not
dressed "appropriately." However, I don't think shorts is "appropriate." But I
saw women in western attire and they looked really good. We lose some dancers
because of the strict dress code. Which is more important? I think the
dwindling numbers of square dancers could be addressed by a less stringent dress
code.
The food at the convention center was very good. If you went to the
advanced square dance rooms there was bottled water. Although I'm not an advanced
dancer, I went with friends and discovered this. Perhaps it would have been
too costly to provide bottled water for all.
I didn't like the flooring on the upper levels either. I know it's not
possible to dance on carpet but there must be something better then the rubberized
flooring.
It was my first National Convention. And it will probably be my last unless
I get a partner. There weren't enough single men and many single men did
not chose to wear the "solo" badge. But, I enjoyed being with friends. I
would consider going to a singles convention.
Anne Barker...Phoenix, AZ
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From dave at daveswebplace.net Tue Jul 3 22:49:53 2007
From: dave at daveswebplace.net (Dave Hinde)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:49:53 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] National Convention Attendance
In-Reply-To: <001a01c7bdaf$80e0efa0$82a2cee0$@com>
Message-ID: <003701c7bde5$ffc3c910$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
It is on the website for Charlotte, http://56thnsdc.com/. I don't know
where the info is for the other conventions, since 1998.
Dave Hinde
--------------------------------------------------------------------
__/, at __ dave at daveswebplace.net
/O____O_| http://www.evadsti.net
_____
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:20 PM
To: Square Dance Group; Square Dance Caller Group
Subject: [Squaredancing] National Convention Attendance
Some years ago the NEC used to publish the attendance records for the
National Convention. Not just a total. They used to break it down by
state, Canada and International. The 1998 Convention in Charlotte was the
last convention that I was able to obtain the number. Does anybody know
where this information can be found?
Bruce
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From jmaczko at san.rr.com Tue Jul 3 23:43:11 2007
From: jmaczko at san.rr.com (Jim Maczko)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:43:11 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
Message-ID: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
For those who are interested, I have attached the NSDC Attendance that I
have maintained over the years - this is current through Charlotte with the
exception of San Antonio.
During the NSDC in Charlotte there were first time Convention attendees who
participated in some of the panels who expressed their approval of the dress
code - while they may not represent all new dancers, they did not have a
problem with the dress code. One of the ladies admitted that when she
started dancing she did not agree with the attire - and even though no one
pressured her into wearing "Traditional Attire" she has willingly adopted
the attire.
There seems to be more support for the "Traditional Attire" than some of
dancers are willing to recognize.
Jim Maczko
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From ljknews at mac.com Wed Jul 4 00:01:46 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 00:01:46 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
In-Reply-To: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
References: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
Message-ID:
At 8:43 PM -0700 7/3/07, Jim Maczko wrote:
> During the NSDC in Charlotte there were first time Convention attendees
>who participated in some of the panels who expressed their approval of the
>dress code - while they may not represent all new dancers, they did not
>have a problem with the dress code.
Certainly they only represent those who are willing to put up with it.
After we finished learning to the local entry level, my wife and I
chose to immediately try a local club without any dress code. After
that I got elected President of the club where we learned (they were
hard up) and I am happy to say that the emphasis on square dance attire
there dropped drastically during my three terms as President.
--
Larry Kilgallen
From htrost at gmx.de Wed Jul 4 00:29:47 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:29:47 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
In-Reply-To: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
References: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <468B223B.5020701@gmx.de>
Jim,
Maczko wrote:
> For those who are interested, I have attached the NSDC Attendance that
> I have maintained over the years - this is current through Charlotte
> with the exception of San Antonio.
>
>
>
> During the NSDC in Charlotte there were first time Convention
> attendees who participated in some of the panels who expressed their
> approval of the dress code - while they may not represent all new
> dancers, they did not have a problem with the dress code. One of the
> ladies admitted that when she started dancing she did not agree with
> the attire - and even though no one pressured her into wearing
> "Traditional Attire" she has willingly adopted the attire.
>
>
>
> There seems to be more support for the "Traditional Attire" than some
> of dancers are willing to recognize.
>
no, absolutely not. Better: Have a look on who did attend the actually
Nationals and you will see that it was no difference on the average age
as in a big event of a senior citizens home, this includes the
participants of the panels and seminars, too. The attendance do shrink
in general, and it is an indicator that the interest of people in MWSD
do shrink, too.
At marketing and all kinds of Qualtity management we learn that the
customers needs have to be first priority. And that if the customer
don't accept a product as good enough to stay away from lazy dog status,
then we must change the product so it can get back to a top seller or at
least a cash cow.
And not enough people want to wear those outdated pseudo Traditional
costumes.
E.g. lots of those empty nesters and baby boomers who now are in their
50's and up and became our main target group for square dancing don't
wear any skirts or dresses, yes, a high number of them are used to wear
slacks, trousers, and so on all year long. And we have to compete with
all other kinds of dancing which don't request any special dance
attire. And the very few younger dancers who wear sd attire for the
events never do risk to wear those costumes in the public because they
don't want that their classmates will see them that way.
Heinz
>
>
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From NShukayr at aol.com Wed Jul 4 02:08:50 2007
From: NShukayr at aol.com (NShukayr at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 02:08:50 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Dress Code
Message-ID:
jmaczko at san.rr.com writes:
> There seems to be more support for the ?Traditional Attire? than
> some of dancers are willing to recognize.
Are you serious? The Callerlab market research (especially the focus group
study) clearly shows that people are turned off by the attire. This is a
crystal clear, proven fact.
But let's assume the market research is wrong. Let's assume (for a moment)
that vast hordes of people are clamoring to wear square dance attire.
I say: LET 'EM. I have absolutely no problem with people making their own
choice about what to wear. Each person chooses their own clothing. In
today's modern age, do we really have the right to demand other people to wear a
given style of clothes?
What if the National convention allowed people to choose their own clothing?
You'd keep those who prefer full square dance attire, and you'd also gain
those who cannot tolerate it. Note that market research shows more people
hate the attire than like it. So by allowing everyone the freedom of choice,
events can post tremendous gains.
What's the drawback? We might (I said MIGHT) lose some of the people who
insist on dictating what others wear. Well, this problem has a solution. What
if the National convention had a hall (ONE hall) where the full dress code
was strictly enforced? That way, those who insist on a dress code can still
have their way, while the vast majority (as proven by the market research) can
be free to enjoy themselves as well.
It's time for square dancing to move forward, instead of remaining stuck in
the past.
Nasser "let each person choose their own clothes" Shukayr
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 02:25:13 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 01:25:13 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte Dress code
References: <000001c7bda0$b2a34510$17e9cf30$@com>
Message-ID: <468B3D48.000043.03276@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a dress code.
Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life would
never
wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats along with
petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing traditional
is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it feminine for
the ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
night out.
Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
people into square dancing.
Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people attend
public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their attic stating
they want to be comfortable.
If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or dressy.
Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
Attended a country western dance where they did not allow
the females who arrived in shorts where their cheeks hung out the bottom
along with tank tops so low nothing was left to the imagination to enter.
Although there was not a stated dress code it was a Christian Singles
Dance that did not allow smoking or alcohol as well. Many Dance clubs or
groups have dress codes.
Chris (male) showed up at one of the Christian Singles dances in the summer
with a short sleeved nice shirt, along with long walking shorts. He never
tried this again people found it totally unacceptable for a Saturday night
dance. Chris was the one who started this dance club LOL.
Although square dancing is down that is true of all dancing not just square
dancing. More people are staying home surfing the net. More than likely
this trend will change as they all do and active dancing will make a come
back clubs just needed to hang in there do their best to recruit so when
things change again, the clubs will still be here and ready to teach new
dancers.
Brenda
Dress Code Definitions
TRADITIONAL
Square Dance style dress or skirt with blouse/top and petticoat and
pettipants or prairie type long skirts with blouse/top for women. Long
sleeve shirts and ties for men with nice jeans or western style slacks.
PROPER /BASIC
Long or short sleeve shirts for men, short sleeve blouses/tops for women.
Square Dance style dress or skirt prairie type long skirts, nice jeans or
slacks for men and women. No tie required.
CASUAL
Male - T-shirts with sleeves, polo shirts etc with short sleeves. Pants:
length no shorter than just above the knee. No tank tops.
Female - Blouses, t-shirts with sleeves etc with no bare backs or midriffs
Pants: Bermudas, petal pushers or long pants. Skirts: no shorter than top of
knee or above knee must wear petti-pants. No revealing or see through
clothing. No spandex, hi-cut shorts, bare midriff tops, tank tops or muscle
shirts).
THEME
Using the casual guidelines and adding items that fit the theme of the
dance. It can always be more toward traditional, but not less than casual.
SAME GENDER PARTNERS
Please dress according to gender dancing.
We have a wonderful heritage to look back on, who can tell what the future
will bring. Evolution and changes can be good, but let's not allow changes
from such a beautifully exquisite tradition to deteriorate to street, work
and business level of sameness.
We must always keep flexibility in mind as not everyone picks up a flyer
before each dance and those who are visiting may not know the suggested
level of attire for any given dance.
-------Original Message-------
From: Bruce Morgan
Date: 7/3/2007 1:34:27 PM
To: Square Dance Group
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
This is from the National Executive Committee web site.
NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE GUIDELINES FOR DRESS CODE
AT NATIONAL SQUARE DANCE CONVENTIONS.
Square and Round Dance Attire:
Ladies - Square Dance Dress/Skirt and top with crinoline slip and pettipants
or Prairie Length Dress/Prairie Skirt and Top with soft slip (no
slacks/jeans or shorts on square or round dance floors).
Men - Long Sleeve Shirt and Dress Slacks or Clean Dress Jeans (bolo or
square dance tie recommended). (No short sleeve shirts, T-shirts, shorts on
square dance or round dance floors).
Contra Dance Attire:
Ladies - Contra length Dress/Skirt and Top or same as square and round dance
attire.
Men - Same as square and round dance attire
Clogging Attire:
Ladies - Clogging Length Dress/Skirt and Top or same as square and round
dance attire except crinoline is optional. Slacks/clean jeans or shorts are
allowed during practice sessions.
Men - Long/Short Sleeve Shirts and Dress Slacks/Jeans (bolo or square dance
tie optional). Shorts and T-shirts allowed during practice sessions.
Country Western Attire:
Ladies/Men - Country Western Outfits or same as square and round dance
attire.
ALL DANCERS WILL BE PERMITTED IN ANY HALL, BUT NEED TO BE DRESSED IN PROPER
ATTIRE.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com [mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn
com] On Behalf Of Linda Jones - LKJ
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:52 PM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
So what IS the dress code for the convention? We are hoping go in the
next year or two and I want to dress appropriately.
Thanks!
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:30 PM
To: Square Dance Group
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
I thought it was a great convention. The sound in the Live Band hall
was very bad on Wednesday night but was a lot better the remainder of
the convention. The music in the Live Band Hall was just too loud most
all the time. You had to really strain to hear the callers over and
above the Band. It was nice that they had the convention center people
manning the escalators so that in order to go down to them main dance
halls you had to have a Convention Badge on. This eliminated a lot of
non dancers just milling around looking. They were able to watch from
window on the main floor.
The food was excellent. We even went to the mall across the street from
the convention center and ate 2 nights. This place had at least 3
places that were open almost all the times that the convention was open.
We really enjoyed it. There were a few fast food type places that were
not open all the times. They were geared toward the working people.
Since our activity is held almost at night these places were closed when
we needed them the most. It would have been nice if they had been told
and could have stayed open. I am sure they would have been busy.
All in all, it was a great convention. As for the dress code. I think
it was a BIG mistake to ask people to leave because they weren't dressed
as required. The, as required, is not spelled out so that everybody
knows what is required. If we are going by the CallerLab description
then most people that were asked to leave probably met that requirement.
If this is going to be enforced at future conventions then it needs to
be stated well up front as to what everybody is to wear. If it is good
for the dancers then the callers, cuers, etc. need to be held to the
same standards. They are not special people. They should not get
special treatment.
Bruce Morgan
Orlando, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:14 PM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Since this list has been very quiet lately, maybe we can get a
discussion going about the recent NSDC in Charlotte, NC.
There has been a lively discussion in the SD-Callers list about the
"Dress Code violation incident" in the C1 hall.
Overall, I thought it was a pretty good convention from a dancers
point of view.
On the positive side:
The convention center is small, so the convention filled it nicely.
The food was good and reasonably priced. There was an $8 buffet for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I never saw the food run out completely.
The sound was good with little bleeding between halls.
The education area was easy to get to and well signed.
The attendance was up about 10% over last year. Total: 8021. (I have a
web site that shows the attendance over the years
Now some negatives:
The rubberized plastic floor that was put over the carpet was hard to
dance on at first and it rippled in spots. I heard that some round
dancers tripped on the ripples.
I heard that the transportation provided was pretty bad I didn't use
it, so I can't comment on it. I walked the few blocks to/from my hotel.
The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
PM.
The hall used for the exhibitions and ceremonies did not have bleacher
seating set up. This made it very difficult to really see the
exhibitions and the Parade of States.
The signs for some of the halls, especially those which were created
by dividing big halls, was very poor and it was hard to figure out
which hall was which.
Does anyone else have anything to contribute??
Ken Robinson
Hillsborough, NJ / Baltimore, MD
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From ljknews at mac.com Wed Jul 4 04:29:30 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 04:29:30 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte Dress
code
In-Reply-To: <468B3D48.000043.03276@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
References: <000001c7bda0$b2a34510$17e9cf30$@com>
<468B3D48.000043.03276@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID:
At 1:25 AM -0500 7/4/07, Brenda wrote:
> Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a dress code.
I certainly disagree that square dancing needs anything beyond local public
decency laws. But let us look at one small aspect of your "plan":
> SAME GENDER PARTNERS
> Please dress according to gender dancing.
And exactly how much of a pause are you willing to allow between tips while
people change costumes to accomplish this ? Remember, it is not until the
start of the tip that some people know who their partner will be, and only
when the partner is known can there be a discussion as to who will dance
which part. Will the rest of you all wait while those folks change ?
And what if they decide to switch roles for the singing call ? Will
the rest of the floor wait for a costume change then as well ?
--
Larry Kilgallen
From johnpresto at yahoo.com Wed Jul 4 05:12:09 2007
From: johnpresto at yahoo.com (John Preston)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 02:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte Dress
code
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <498187.88930.qm@web50902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Clubs, events, and organizations are allowed to have whatever rules they want. They have to succeed or fail by those decisions. Is it wise for the National Convention to have such a stringent rule? Is it wise for them to enforce that rule by embarassing someone publicly? I am sure they will be discussing these things soon.
For what it is worth, I think they should have talked to the person privately after the tip or the session was over. It is not a matter of public safety so they should not have done it in the middle of a dance or session.
ljknews wrote:
At 1:25 AM -0500 7/4/07, Brenda wrote:
> Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a dress code.
I certainly disagree that square dancing needs anything beyond local public
decency laws. But let us look at one small aspect of your "plan":
> SAME GENDER PARTNERS
> Please dress according to gender dancing.
And exactly how much of a pause are you willing to allow between tips while
people change costumes to accomplish this ? Remember, it is not until the
start of the tip that some people know who their partner will be, and only
when the partner is known can there be a discussion as to who will dance
which part. Will the rest of you all wait while those folks change ?
And what if they decide to switch roles for the singing call ? Will
the rest of the floor wait for a costume change then as well ?
--
Larry Kilgallen
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
Johnny Preston
http://members.cox.net/johnny.preston
949 235-6208
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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From cynde at twistercom.fi Wed Jul 4 05:27:56 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:27:56 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
<468AC1B7.6020306@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <003701c7be1d$9af70f00$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
Nice to hear about it for those of us who didn't attend. I toy with the idea
sometimes...maybe someday. For now I get my jollies from going to Germany to
dance. There is a the 8th iPAC Convention coming up in Barmstedt...
Cynde
Finland
> Ken et al,
>
>
> thank you for your report about the 56th Nationals.
>
> My report:
>
> When I arrived at the airport it was nice to find a table who offered
> transportation information to the 56th.
> Also a good thing was that the airport bus to Uptown was
>
>
> Again the required dress code led to problems and closed a lot of
> dancers out. They required "proper" square dance attire, but forced
> dancers to wear "Traditional" attire or leave.
>
> They should accept the definitions for the three attire styles Callerlab
> have recommended. Better they should use some more liberal like e.g.
> they do recommend dance attire for the dances in the evenings... (and
> nor require neither Proper nor Traditional all day).
>
> The International hospitality room was on ground floor, easy to find
> from the International attendees like me. And it was the only place I
> found where was a water dispenser with purified water. (Almost all water
> dispensers in the halls only contain water from the tap whic doesn't
> taste well).
>
> Vendors area was smaller than ever.
> Dance halls:
> Plus with rounds was attended real well.
> Plus was attendes well, too.
> Mainstream with the live band was overcrowded in the evenings and the
> sound was to noisy for my poor ears.
> There was a small hall for Line dancing, one for clogging
> and one for Contra.
>
> Mainstream with rounds were pretty well attended.
> A1 was in a smaller room with often 4-6 squares
> A2 was in a larger room for up to 30 squares. A2 room was the 2nd best
> attended hall at the Nationals (except the live band).
> C1-2-3 was in one small room, usually had up to 4 squares.
>
> Round dance halls were most time full of dancers.
>
> Mainstream with live band was too loud.
>
> Seminars an panels were interesting. Sadly the foldable wall which
> separated room -A from room -B doesn't insolate that much from sound
> from the room beside.
>
> Heinz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
From cynde at twistercom.fi Wed Jul 4 05:50:17 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:50:17 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] Skirt style opinions
References: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com> <468B223B.5020701@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <005501c7be20$ba3c3f90$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
I felt like most females do when they start dancing that I would NEVER wear the trad dress but also began wearing them anyway. I think 'swishy-ness' is important in skirts and it's a pity if the petticoats are so outlandish that women go for the everyday slacks instead. It would make the whole thing very unspecial and that would be too bad. I for myself have gone more for the prairie type skirt (swishy ones!) and maybe that should be encouraged so skirts don't disappear all together! Many square dancers do not sport the tiny waists that are needed to handle the fluffy short skirts and elastic belts. I love skirt work and that is missing when we are at regular practice in our jeans.
If women lose the duds then the men may stop too. :(
Surely swishy styles with lots of detail can be designed in flattering cuts so women will want to wear them even in public (like running across the street without hiding their faces)
Cynde
Beltless in Helsinki (and below the knee hemmed)
----- Original Message -----
From: Heinz D. Trost
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
Jim,
Maczko wrote:
For those who are interested, I have attached the NSDC Attendance that I have maintained over the years - this is current through Charlotte with the exception of San Antonio.
During the NSDC in Charlotte there were first time Convention attendees who participated in some of the panels who expressed their approval of the dress code - while they may not represent all new dancers, they did not have a problem with the dress code. One of the ladies admitted that when she started dancing she did not agree with the attire - and even though no one pressured her into wearing "Traditional Attire" she has willingly adopted the attire.
There seems to be more support for the "Traditional Attire" than some of dancers are willing to recognize.
no, absolutely not. Better: Have a look on who did attend the actually Nationals and you will see that it was no difference on the average age as in a big event of a senior citizens home, this includes the participants of the panels and seminars, too. The attendance do shrink in general, and it is an indicator that the interest of people in MWSD do shrink, too.
At marketing and all kinds of Qualtity management we learn that the customers needs have to be first priority. And that if the customer don't accept a product as good enough to stay away from lazy dog status, then we must change the product so it can get back to a top seller or at least a cash cow.
And not enough people want to wear those outdated pseudo Traditional costumes.
E.g. lots of those empty nesters and baby boomers who now are in their 50's and up and became our main target group for square dancing don't wear any skirts or dresses, yes, a high number of them are used to wear slacks, trousers, and so on all year long. And we have to compete with all other kinds of dancing which don't request any special dance attire. And the very few younger dancers who wear sd attire for the events never do risk to wear those costumes in the public because they don't want that their classmates will see them that way.
Heinz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
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From cynde at twistercom.fi Wed Jul 4 06:12:06 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:12:06 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
References: <000001c7bda0$b2a34510$17e9cf30$@com><468B3D48.000043.03276@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID: <005f01c7be23$c64fa670$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
A certain dress code could be desirable for the 'flavor of it all' like in
ballroom dancing you expect heels and gowns, and lindy hop ankle socks!
There is something very special to see everyone 'dressed up' but it's
important that the dancers are happy with it! They must be able to wear what
they want so lets make the attire more attractive to the wants and needs of
2007, 8, 9, + + + subject to change with the demands. 'Please dress
according to gender dancing' is downright absurd for the reasons mentioned
below! It suggests only 'real' couples are allowed to dance! Sounds like
this mostly benefits the caller.
I support a dress code suggestion but forcing it on unwilling crowds only
deters dancing pleasure.
Cynde
PS Have you seen those circus acrobats who are wearing one outfit and lift
and drop a hoop and 'poof' they have on another one on? sounds like same
gender dancers could use some of those!
.
>
> And exactly how much of a pause are you willing to allow between tips
> while
> people change costumes to accomplish this ? Remember, it is not until the
> start of the tip that some people know who their partner will be, and only
> when the partner is known can there be a discussion as to who will dance
> which part. Will the rest of you all wait while those folks change ?
>
> And what if they decide to switch roles for the singing call ? Will
> the rest of the floor wait for a costume change then as well ?
> --
> Larry Kilgallen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
From NShukayr at aol.com Wed Jul 4 06:30:34 2007
From: NShukayr at aol.com (NShukayr at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 06:30:34 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte Dress
code
Message-ID:
I was right in there with ya', up until the point where you started to
impose your preference on others. You have the right to wear whatever you choose.
So does everyone else. You do -not- have the right to impose your choices
on others.
Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers are accustomed
to dictating a dress code. That's why I propose big events have a hall (ONE
hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who enjoy telling
others what to wear, and those who enjoy being told what to wear, can dance in
the Dress Code hall.
Problem solved.
Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what they hafta wear is
the problem" Shukayr
In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:26:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
> Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a dress code.
>
> Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life would
never
> wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats along with
> petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing
traditional
> is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
> good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it feminine for
the
> ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
night out.
>
> Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
> be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
> people into square dancing.
>
> Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
> feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people
> attend public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their
> attic stating they want to be comfortable.
>
> If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or dressy.
> Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
From lars-erik.morell at ericsson.com Wed Jul 4 07:08:08 2007
From: lars-erik.morell at ericsson.com (Lars Erik Morell (AL/EAB))
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:08:08 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <6616D98C65DD514BA2E1DDC5F9223155023EAC82@esealmw115.eemea.ericsson.se>
>
> Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers
> are accustomed to dictating a dress code. That's why I
> propose big events have a hall (ONE
> hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who
> enjoy telling others what to wear, and those who enjoy being
> told what to wear, can dance in the Dress Code hall.
>
> Problem solved.
>
> Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what
> they hafta wear is the problem" Shukayr
And, Nasser, why not have that hall declared to be a National Park where
Park Rangers could police the code.
Lars Erik Morell
From ljknews at mac.com Wed Jul 4 08:47:44 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:47:44 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
In-Reply-To: <6616D98C65DD514BA2E1DDC5F9223155023EAC82@esealmw115.eemea.ericsson.se>
References:
<6616D98C65DD514BA2E1DDC5F9223155023EAC82@esealmw115.eemea.ericsson.se>
Message-ID:
At 1:08 PM +0200 7/4/07, Lars Erik Morell (AL/EAB) wrote:
>> Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers
>> are accustomed to dictating a dress code. That's why I
>> propose big events have a hall (ONE
>> hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who
>> enjoy telling others what to wear, and those who enjoy being
>> told what to wear, can dance in the Dress Code hall.
>>
>> Problem solved.
>>
>> Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what
>> they hafta wear is the problem" Shukayr
>
> And, Nasser, why not have that hall declared to be a National Park where
> Park Rangers could police the code.
Don't go all wimpy on us - in a few years there should be a surplus
of used Armored Personnel Carriers back in the US. What could be
more honorable than protecting the Homeland from short sleeved shirts ?
--
Larry Kilgallen
From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com Wed Jul 4 09:09:49 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:09:49 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
In-Reply-To:
References:
<6616D98C65DD514BA2E1DDC5F9223155023EAC82@esealmw115.eemea.ericsson.se>
Message-ID:
At 08:47 AM 7/4/2007, ljknews wrote:
> >
> > And, Nasser, why not have that hall declared to be a National Park where
> > Park Rangers could police the code.
>
>Don't go all wimpy on us - in a few years there should be a surplus
>of used Armored Personnel Carriers back in the US. What could be
>more honorable than protecting the Homeland from short sleeved shirts ?
Along these lines -- here's a humorous web site "My Parents Were
Undercover Square Dancers"
Ken
From dave at daveswebplace.net Wed Jul 4 10:10:44 2007
From: dave at daveswebplace.net (Dave Hinde)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:10:44 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
In-Reply-To: <20070704131102.VDOL1361.eastrmmtai106.cox.net@eastrmimpi05.cox.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c7be45$1d2cbac0$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
I thought I'd throw a couple more logs on the clothing fire:
Cost is one consideration. What is the cost to own enough dresses to attend
a National. Do we want to eliminate the newest dancers from our Conventions
just because they don't own enough clothes? How many women would like to
dress in "Square Dance" attire but can't afford enough dresses to attend a
National? Nasser's idea of a dedicated hall is a good one for that reason.
When Square Dancing started out, hundreds of years ago, the dress was about
the same as the dancers would wear to church, and possibly to work. The
same standard should apply today. Common sense and common decency is the
only dress code that we really need.
About panels, dress code complaints did arise at one of the panels I was
moderating. Since it was off topic, I steered us back on course, but not
before several people had agreed with the person that brought it up. The
comment was that if you wanted the convention to be friendlier to solos and
younger dancers, get rid of the antiquated dress codes.
My suggestion: Worry about attendance figures. When the numbers get back up
over 10,000, then start talking about a dress code. Same thing with clubs.
If you have too many dancers attending your club dances, then enforce a
dress code.
One more thing -- The flyer for Wichita, Kansas, for next year's National
Square Dance Convention, says: Proper Square Dance Attire. It does not say
Traditional or Modern, just "Proper". I hope (anyone from Kansas reading
this?) that they put a full explanation or definition in confirmation
letters. What happens if a new dancer attends wearing what they learned is
proper in their small club? They've probably spent over $1000 on travel
already to get there. Are you going to send them home?
Just my 2 cents,
Dave Hinde
--------------------------------------------------------------------
__/, at __ dave at daveswebplace.net
/O____O_| http://www.evadsti.net
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:10 AM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
At 08:47 AM 7/4/2007, ljknews wrote:
> >
> > And, Nasser, why not have that hall declared to be a National Park
> > where Park Rangers could police the code.
>
>Don't go all wimpy on us - in a few years there should be a surplus of
>used Armored Personnel Carriers back in the US. What could be more
>honorable than protecting the Homeland from short sleeved shirts ?
Along these lines -- here's a humorous web site "My Parents Were Undercover
Square Dancers"
Ken
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com Wed Jul 4 10:34:49 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 10:34:49 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
In-Reply-To: <002e01c7be45$1d2cbac0$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
References: <20070704131102.VDOL1361.eastrmmtai106.cox.net@eastrmimpi05.cox.net>
<002e01c7be45$1d2cbac0$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
Message-ID:
At 10:10 AM 7/4/2007, Dave Hinde wrote:
>I thought I'd throw a couple more logs on the clothing fire:
>
>Cost is one consideration. What is the cost to own enough dresses to attend
>a National. Do we want to eliminate the newest dancers from our Conventions
>just because they don't own enough clothes? How many women would like to
>dress in "Square Dance" attire but can't afford enough dresses to attend a
>National? Nasser's idea of a dedicated hall is a good one for that reason.
As my late wife, Helena, used to say -- "You don't have to spend a
lot of money on square dance attire." If you know how to sew, making
simple outfits can save a lot of money. When she was alive and
feeling well, we made all our own outfits. I believe we bought 6
yards of material which was enough for a circle skirt for her, a vest
for her, and a vest for me. She usually had three crinolines (red,
white, pink) that would go with any of the outfits. And I had a
number of western style shirts and pants.
After she passed away I counted up how many outfits we made -- over 2
dozen. Those were all made before she stopped sewing over 5 years
before she died. I even found one that had been started and never
finished (cut but not sewed)
The square dance shops still sell the patterns that we had used for
so many years.
As for new dancers, many these days either buy second hand s/d
clothes or are given clothes that the original owner doesn't want
anymore (It's amazing how clothes shrink on hangers. :-)
Also, women can but prairie skirts or other longer dresses in regular
clothing stores now. Helena did that after she stopped sewing.
Men can wear normal pants bought anywhere. I don't wear western style
pants anymore. I still wear western shirts most of the time when
dancing, but I rarely wear a western style tie. So, technically, I
was breaking the dress code at the convention, but I guess none of
the "dress police" noticed that.
Ken
From ljknews at mac.com Wed Jul 4 10:40:18 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:40:18 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
In-Reply-To: <200707041435.l64EZIYR005835@mac.com>
References: <20070704131102.VDOL1361.eastrmmtai106.cox.net@eastrmimpi05.cox.net>
<002e01c7be45$1d2cbac0$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
<200707041435.l64EZIYR005835@mac.com>
Message-ID:
At 10:34 AM -0400 7/4/07, Ken Robinson wrote:
> As my late wife, Helena, used to say -- "You don't have to spend a
> lot of money on square dance attire." If you know how to sew, making
> simple outfits can save a lot of money. When she was alive and
> feeling well, we made all our own outfits. I believe we bought 6
> yards of material which was enough for a circle skirt for her, a vest
> for her, and a vest for me. She usually had three crinolines (red,
> white, pink) that would go with any of the outfits. And I had a
> number of western style shirts and pants.
My wife spends a _lot_ of time sewing, but has _never_ been interested
in making herself a square dance dress. (The fanciest such dress would
be well within her capabilities as a sewist.)
--
Larry Kilgallen
From Anniebplus at aol.com Wed Jul 4 12:03:13 2007
From: Anniebplus at aol.com (Anniebplus at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:03:13 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Dress Code
Message-ID:
Here! Here!
Anne
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From GSMom81131 at aol.com Wed Jul 4 12:42:24 2007
From: GSMom81131 at aol.com (GSMom81131 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:42:24 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte Dress
code
Message-ID:
Here's my two cents worth. If you have opinions about anything, not just
the dress code for the National Conventions, why not direct them towards the
General Chairmen and/or the National Executive Committee? Fussing to people
not working on an upcoming convention will probably not change things. Not
that fussing at NEC or GC will change things, but at least you get to voice your
opinions to people who might consider a change.
Barbara (Nasser, could you do something for me?) Courts
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 11:52:36 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:52:36 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in CharlotteDresscode
References: <005f01c7be23$c64fa670$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
Message-ID: <468BC244.000003.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
The dress to gender was actually copied from the net where
it is added to the back of programs for dances with one club.
This was not something invented by me just copied from the Net.
Brenda
-------Original Message-------
From: Cynde Sadler
Date: 7/4/2007 5:12:25 AM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in
CharlotteDresscode
A certain dress code could be desirable for the 'flavor of it all' like in
ballroom dancing you expect heels and gowns, and lindy hop ankle socks!
There is something very special to see everyone 'dressed up' but it's
important that the dancers are happy with it! They must be able to wear what
they want so lets make the attire more attractive to the wants and needs of
2007, 8, 9, + + + subject to change with the demands. 'Please dress
according to gender dancing' is downright absurd for the reasons mentioned
below! It suggests only 'real' couples are allowed to dance! Sounds like
this mostly benefits the caller.
I support a dress code suggestion but forcing it on unwilling crowds only
deters dancing pleasure.
Cynde
PS Have you seen those circus acrobats who are wearing one outfit and lift
and drop a hoop and 'poof' they have on another one on? sounds like same
gender dancers could use some of those!
..
>
> And exactly how much of a pause are you willing to allow between tips
> while
> people change costumes to accomplish this ? Remember, it is not until the
> start of the tip that some people know who their partner will be, and only
> when the partner is known can there be a discussion as to who will dance
> which part. Will the rest of you all wait while those folks change ?
>
> And what if they decide to switch roles for the singing call ? Will
> the rest of the floor wait for a costume change then as well ?
> --
> Larry Kilgallen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 13:00:28 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:00:28 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
References:
Message-ID: <468BD22C.000007.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very
few in number why not have one small hall just for them.
Brenda
-------Original Message-------
From: NShukayr at aol.com
Date: 7/4/2007 5:31:03 AM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
I was right in there with ya', up until the point where you started to
impose your preference on others. You have the right to wear whatever you
choose.
So does everyone else. You do -not- have the right to impose your
choices
on others.
Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers are accustomed
to dictating a dress code. That's why I propose big events have a hall
(ONE
hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who enjoy telling
others what to wear, and those who enjoy being told what to wear, can dance
in
the Dress Code hall.
Problem solved.
Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what they hafta wear
is
the problem" Shukayr
In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:26:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
> Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a dress code.
>
> Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life would
never
> wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats along
with
> petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing
traditional
> is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
> good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it feminine for
the
> ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
night out.
>
> Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
> be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
> people into square dancing.
>
> Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
> feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people
> attend public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their
> attic stating they want to be comfortable.
>
> If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or
dressy.
> Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 13:01:31 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:01:31 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
References:
Message-ID: <468BD26A.00000B.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very
few in number why not have one small hall just for them.
Brenda
-------Original Message-------
From: NShukayr at aol.com
Date: 7/4/2007 5:31:03 AM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
I was right in there with ya', up until the point where you started to
impose your preference on others. You have the right to wear whatever you
choose.
So does everyone else. You do -not- have the right to impose your
choices
on others.
Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers are accustomed
to dictating a dress code. That's why I propose big events have a hall
(ONE
hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who enjoy telling
others what to wear, and those who enjoy being told what to wear, can dance
in
the Dress Code hall.
Problem solved.
Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what they hafta wear
is
the problem" Shukayr
In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:26:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
> Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a dress code.
>
> Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life would
never
> wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats along
with
> petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing
traditional
> is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
> good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it feminine for
the
> ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
night out.
>
> Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
> be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
> people into square dancing.
>
> Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
> feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people
> attend public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their
> attic stating they want to be comfortable.
>
> If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or
dressy.
> Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 13:03:40 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:03:40 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Cost of clothing
References: <002e01c7be45$1d2cbac0$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
Message-ID: <468BD2EC.00000D.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Not sure about all areas however many of my dresses were given to me
when first started to dance. If you let people know you are willing and
actually proud to receive their outfits many will come your way.
Ask around find out who has quite dancing then call them to see if you
can purchase their clothing. If they have a lot make a deal for all the
items
more than likely you will come out better financially this way.
From one lady when first started bought her entire wardrobe for $300.00
this included 14 petticoats some crystal and lame, all in great condition,
23 outfits, 7 skirts, along with 11 tops. What is great about this you can
sell the ones you do not like or share them with other dancers.
The Federation in my area has a back room with male and female clothing for
sale and free both. Last years president put out 4 racks of free
petti-coats, outfits, dresses and petti-pants of her own to anyone who
wanted them.
Several of the larger cities in the states around my area have
clothing for sale most priced very low. When you travel ask around
you never know what you will find. Albuquerque NM has a really nice
little store at one dance they sold men's and women's shirts for only $!.00
each during the dance.
We like to make sure our new dancers start out with 2 or 3 free outfits.
Then there is ebay for some really nice deals. Paid as little as .6 cents
for a new pair of coast shoes.the most have paid was $42.00 and they are
$350.00 professional dance shoes. Helps to have small feet. LOL
You can watch places like Hobby Lobby for fabric sales. One of my
dresses is silk organize the fabric was $29.00 a yard regularly,
on sale paid $2.00 a yard so the dress cost a total of $15.00 zipper,
trim and all. JoAnn;s fabrics has some really great deals as well.
My Halloween out fit this year will be lime green and black spider webs paid
.42 cents a yard for the material last November. The dress cost a total of
$6.00, paid $10.00 for a crystal petti-coat add my .6 cent shoes
a dollar belt, along with free pettipants. Total cost $17.06
My last year Nationals dress found at a second hand store called
Savers for $35.00. The dress is a designer label with full beaded bodice
it was new with the tags still on it, priced new $5,000.00. Simply cut
the length off leaving lots of material to make the mans outfit to match.
Even if you do not sew one could have the cleaners do this for a
few dollars. Made the blue lame petticoat to match it for $20..00 with
fabric found on sale.
Have the all the local second hand stores save anything square dance
for me. The Salvation army cost is $1.49 each item. If do not like it
or can not wear it then take it to the federation for their back room to
share.
When you pay this little for items you can afford to donate thus making it
possible for others to join the fun in dressing up for an awesome night
of dancing away from all the realities of real life.
If you are inventive dressing well can be reasonable in cost and fun.
Brenda
-------Original Message-------
From: Dave Hinde
Date: 7/4/2007 9:11:13 AM
To: 'This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD'
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in
CharlotteDresscode
I thought I'd throw a couple more logs on the clothing fire:
Cost is one consideration. What is the cost to own enough dresses to attend
a National. Do we want to eliminate the newest dancers from our Conventions
just because they don't own enough clothes? How many women would like to
dress in "Square Dance" attire but can't afford enough dresses to attend a
National? Nasser's idea of a dedicated hall is a good one for that reason.
When Square Dancing started out, hundreds of years ago, the dress was about
the same as the dancers would wear to church, and possibly to work. The
same standard should apply today. Common sense and common decency is the
only dress code that we really need.
About panels, dress code complaints did arise at one of the panels I was
moderating. Since it was off topic, I steered us back on course, but not
before several people had agreed with the person that brought it up. The
comment was that if you wanted the convention to be friendlier to solos and
younger dancers, get rid of the antiquated dress codes.
My suggestion: Worry about attendance figures. When the numbers get back up
over 10,000, then start talking about a dress code. Same thing with clubs.
If you have too many dancers attending your club dances, then enforce a
dress code.
One more thing -- The flyer for Wichita, Kansas, for next year's National
Square Dance Convention, says: Proper Square Dance Attire. It does not say
Traditional or Modern, just "Proper". I hope (anyone from Kansas reading
this?) that they put a full explanation or definition in confirmation
letters. What happens if a new dancer attends wearing what they learned is
proper in their small club? They've probably spent over $1000 on travel
already to get there. Are you going to send them home?
Just my 2 cents,
Dave Hinde
--------------------------------------------------------------------
__/, at __ dave at daveswebplace.net
/O____O_| http://www.evadsti.net
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:10 AM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
At 08:47 AM 7/4/2007, ljknews wrote:
> >
> > And, Nasser, why not have that hall declared to be a National Park
> > where Park Rangers could police the code.
>
>Don't go all wimpy on us - in a few years there should be a surplus of
>used Armored Personnel Carriers back in the US. What could be more
>honorable than protecting the Homeland from short sleeved shirts ?
Along these lines -- here's a humorous web site "My Parents Were Undercover
Square Dancers"
Ken
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From NShukayr at aol.com Wed Jul 4 13:15:52 2007
From: NShukayr at aol.com (NShukayr at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:15:52 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Cost of clothing
Message-ID:
Thanks for posting about how to cost-effectively acquire a nice wardrobe.
I'm with ya' all the way ... up until the point where you start demanding
what others must wear. I just don't think we have the right to do that.
Nasser "let each person choose their own clothes to wear" Shukayr
In a message dated 7/4/2007 12:04:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
Not sure about all areas however many of my dresses were given to me
when first started to dance. If you let people know you are willing and
actually proud to receive their outfits many will come your way.
Ask around find out who has quite dancing then call them to see if you
can purchase their clothing. If they have a lot make a deal for all the
items
more than likely you will come out better financially this way.
>From one lady when first started bought her entire wardrobe for $300.00
this included 14 petticoats some crystal and lame, all in great condition,
23 outfits, 7 skirts, along with 11 tops. What is great about this you can
sell the ones you do not like or share them with other dancers.
The Federation in my area has a back room with male and female clothing for
sale and free both. Last years president put out 4 racks of free
petti-coats, outfits, dresses and petti-pants of her own to anyone who wanted them.
Several of the larger cities in the states around my area have
clothing for sale most priced very low. When you travel ask around
you never know what you will find. Albuquerque NM has a really nice
little store at one dance they sold men's and women's shirts for only $!.00
each during the dance.
We like to make sure our new dancers start out with 2 or 3 free outfits.
Then there is ebay for some really nice deals. Paid as little as .6 cents for
a new pair of coast shoes.the most have paid was $42.00 and they are $350.00
professional dance shoes. Helps to have small feet. LOL
You can watch places like Hobby Lobby for fabric sales. One of my
dresses is silk organize the fabric was $29.00 a yard regularly,
on sale paid $2.00 a yard so the dress cost a total of $15.00 zipper,
trim and all. JoAnn;s fabrics has some really great deals as well.
My Halloween out fit this year will be lime green and black spider webs paid
.42 cents a yard for the material last November. The dress cost a total of
$6.00, paid $10.00 for a crystal petti-coat add my .6 cent shoes
a dollar belt, along with free pettipants. Total cost $17.06
My last year Nationals dress found at a second hand store called
Savers for $35.00. The dress is a designer label with full beaded bodice
it was new with the tags still on it, priced new $5,000.00. Simply cut
the length off leaving lots of material to make the mans outfit to match.
Even if you do not sew one could have the cleaners do this for a
few dollars. Made the blue lame petticoat to match it for $20..00 with
fabric found on sale.
Have the all the local second hand stores save anything square dance
for me. The Salvation army cost is $1.49 each item. If do not like it
or can not wear it then take it to the federation for their back room to
share.
When you pay this little for items you can afford to donate thus making it
possible for others to join the fun in dressing up for an awesome night
of dancing away from all the realities of real life.
If you are inventive dressing well can be reasonable in cost and fun.
Brenda
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From NShukayr at aol.com Wed Jul 4 13:22:17 2007
From: NShukayr at aol.com (NShukayr at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:22:17 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Dresscode
Message-ID:
In a message dated 7/4/2007 12:01:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
> Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very
> few in number why not have one small hall just for them.
No. Since you insist on telling others what to wear, I insist on telling
you which halls you can dance in.
It's only fair.
Nasser "let's stop imposing our personal opinions on others" Shukayr
But seriously ... what if the National had some halls where there was no
dress code. People could dance in those halls if they want to. Would it ruin
your day because someone IN ANOTHER HALL was not dressed to the nines?
Just curious.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
From htrost at gmx.de Wed Jul 4 14:31:22 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:31:22 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in
Charlotte Dresscode
In-Reply-To: <468BD22C.000007.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
References:
<468BD22C.000007.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID: <468BE77A.30904@gmx.de>
Again, Brenda:
The majority of the dancers do stay at home or away from the hobby in
total because they are forces to wear those outdated clothes.
Those who still wear those outdated costumes will extinct very soon.
Heinz
Brenda wrote:
> Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very
> few in number why not have one small hall just for them.
>
>
>
> Brenda
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: NShukayr at aol.com
> Date: 7/4/2007 5:31:03 AM
> To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
> Dresscode
>
> I was right in there with ya', up until the point where you started to
> impose your preference on others. You have the right to wear whatever
> you choose.
> So does everyone else. You do -not- have the right to impose your
> choices
> on others.
>
> Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers are accustomed
> to dictating a dress code. That's why I propose big events have a hall
> (ONE
> hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who enjoy telling
> others what to wear, and those who enjoy being told what to wear, can
> dance in
> the Dress Code hall.
>
> Problem solved.
>
> Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what they hafta
> wear is
> the problem" Shukayr
>
> In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:26:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
>
> > Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a
> dress code.
> >
> > Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life would
> never
> > wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats
> along with
> > petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing
> traditional
> > is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
> > good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it
> feminine for
> the
> > ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
> night out.
> >
> > Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
> > be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
> > people into square dancing.
> >
> > Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
> > feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people
> > attend public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their
> > attic stating they want to be comfortable.
> >
> > If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or
> dressy.
> > Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 04.07.2007 13:40
From htrost at gmx.de Wed Jul 4 14:48:09 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:48:09 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Cost of clothing
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <468BEB69.1080001@gmx.de>
Nasser,
NShukayr at aol.com wrote:
> Thanks for posting about how to cost-effectively acquire a nice wardrobe.
>
> I'm with ya' all the way ... up until the point where you start
> demanding what others must wear. I just don't think we have the right
> to do that.
you're absolutely right, I think.
Beside the situation that those old, most obese women do look much more
obese if they wear those outdated Traditional attire costumes of the
50's, so Brenda and all who try to force everybody to wear those
costumes should face, that square dancing is a hobby,- and the dancers
aren't paid for, but do everything on their own expenses.
And this do make a difference t e.g. a paid job where the employer
legally can set the dress code for those employees he is paying for.
So e.g. actually I'm trainee of a quality consultant, and our customer
do force everbody who do work for his company to wear business attire if
they do work in his buildings. And so my boss did accept this, because
the customer will pay the bill my boss will write to him. And if my boss
and I will do work there then we will wear business attire there.
But at my spare time I won't get forced from Brenda or anybody to wear
anything they force me to,- except if she/they would pay my expenses and
my bill.
Heinz
From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 16:44:45 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:44:45 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National inCharlotteDresscode
References: <468BE77A.30904@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <468C06BD.00000F.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
How do you really know this?
Many people do not have the interest in attending large functions.
They simply want to dance each week at home. Several of the older couples in
one of the clubs dance in have danced for 45 years or more and have never
attended a National dance they do however always dress up for the local ones
at home.
Others chose to go to conventions only in places where they have never
been. Since they are still working and most are a long way off if this is
their vacation time they want to enjoy site seeing the area after the dance
.
Others say they have little time off and chose to spend their vacations
somewhere besides in a dance hall as they enjoy seeing an area they
are visiting not just the inside of a building for 4 days and are not able
to
take off more time. Still others have young children who are not dancers
yet. Therefore fill vacations need to be spent with their families in an
activity for all.
Still others say the choice not to attend has to do with money. Like most
of us they have only so much, therefore must chose wisely where to spend it
for their personal pleasure.
My experience must be totally limited to a different kind of dancer than you
seem to be encountering as have yet to hear a person state they are not
attending because there is a dress code.
Brenda
-------Original Message-------
From: Heinz D. Trost
Date: 7/4/2007 1:28:52 PM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National inCharlotteDresscode
Again, Brenda:
The majority of the dancers do stay at home or away from the hobby in
total because they are forces to wear those outdated clothes.
Those who still wear those outdated costumes will extinct very soon.
Heinz
Brenda wrote:
> Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very
> few in number why not have one small hall just for them.
>
>
>
> Brenda
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: NShukayr at aol.com
> Date: 7/4/2007 5:31:03 AM
> To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
> Dresscode
>
> I was right in there with ya', up until the point where you started to
> impose your preference on others. You have the right to wear whatever
> you choose.
> So does everyone else. You do -not- have the right to impose your
> choices
> on others.
>
> Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers are
accustomed
> to dictating a dress code. That's why I propose big events have a hall
> (ONE
> hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who enjoy telling
> others what to wear, and those who enjoy being told what to wear, can
> dance in
> the Dress Code hall.
>
> Problem solved.
>
> Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what they hafta
> wear is
> the problem" Shukayr
>
> In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:26:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
>
> > Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a
> dress code.
> >
> > Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life
would
> never
> > wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats
> along with
> > petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing
> traditional
> > is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
> > good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it
> feminine for
> the
> > ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
> night out.
> >
> > Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
> > be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
> > people into square dancing.
> >
> > Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
> > feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people
> > attend public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their
> > attic stating they want to be comfortable.
> >
> > If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or
> dressy.
> > Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 04.07.2007
13:40
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
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From brenda.kc at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 16:44:45 2007
From: brenda.kc at gmail.com (Brenda)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:44:45 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National inCharlotteDresscode
References: <468BE77A.30904@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <468C06BD.00000F.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
How do you really know this?
Many people do not have the interest in attending large functions.
They simply want to dance each week at home. Several of the older couples in
one of the clubs dance in have danced for 45 years or more and have never
attended a National dance they do however always dress up for the local ones
at home.
Others chose to go to conventions only in places where they have never
been. Since they are still working and most are a long way off if this is
their vacation time they want to enjoy site seeing the area after the dance
.
Others say they have little time off and chose to spend their vacations
somewhere besides in a dance hall as they enjoy seeing an area they
are visiting not just the inside of a building for 4 days and are not able
to
take off more time. Still others have young children who are not dancers
yet. Therefore fill vacations need to be spent with their families in an
activity for all.
Still others say the choice not to attend has to do with money. Like most
of us they have only so much, therefore must chose wisely where to spend it
for their personal pleasure.
My experience must be totally limited to a different kind of dancer than you
seem to be encountering as have yet to hear a person state they are not
attending because there is a dress code.
Brenda
-------Original Message-------
From: Heinz D. Trost
Date: 7/4/2007 1:28:52 PM
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National inCharlotteDresscode
Again, Brenda:
The majority of the dancers do stay at home or away from the hobby in
total because they are forces to wear those outdated clothes.
Those who still wear those outdated costumes will extinct very soon.
Heinz
Brenda wrote:
> Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very
> few in number why not have one small hall just for them.
>
>
>
> Brenda
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: NShukayr at aol.com
> Date: 7/4/2007 5:31:03 AM
> To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
> Dresscode
>
> I was right in there with ya', up until the point where you started to
> impose your preference on others. You have the right to wear whatever
> you choose.
> So does everyone else. You do -not- have the right to impose your
> choices
> on others.
>
> Still, let's recognize the cold reality that square dancers are
accustomed
> to dictating a dress code. That's why I propose big events have a hall
> (ONE
> hall) where the dress code is strictly enforced. Those who enjoy telling
> others what to wear, and those who enjoy being told what to wear, can
> dance in
> the Dress Code hall.
>
> Problem solved.
>
> Nasser "attire is not the problem ... telling people what they hafta
> wear is
> the problem" Shukayr
>
> In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:26:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> brenda.kc at gmail.com writes:
>
> > Square dancing like most public functions has always needed a
> dress code.
> >
> > Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing however in my real life
would
> never
> > wear a dress this short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats
> along with
> > petti-pants one can adapt. One of the nice things about dressing
> traditional
> > is women look like ladies and all the men gentlemen. This is very
> > good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special. Be it
> feminine for
> the
> > ladies along with masculine for the gentleman makes for a healthy fun
> night out.
> >
> > Personally do not believe that changing from requiring people to
> > be well groomed to allowing them to wear anything will bring more
> > people into square dancing.
> >
> > Personally would not enjoy dancing very close to people who do not
> > feel to need to be well groomed at a public function. Many people
> > attend public functions in clothes what should be used to clean their
> > attic stating they want to be comfortable.
> >
> > If slacks are allowed we have to state what kind, how tight, and or
> dressy.
> > Shorts, how short, tight, and or how dressy.
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 04.07.2007
13:40
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
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From squarekopp at gmx.de Wed Jul 4 17:33:07 2007
From: squarekopp at gmx.de (squarekopp at gmx.de)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 23:33:07 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID: <20070704213307.77800@gmx.net>
Anne Barker wrote, in part:
> It was my first National Convention. And it will probably be my last
> unless I get a partner.
Go to the Contra Hall. There they used to change partners for every tip; and I hope they still do.
Yours squarely
Heiner Fischle
Hannover, Germany
From mschiller at pobox.com Wed Jul 4 18:02:54 2007
From: mschiller at pobox.com (martin)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:02:54 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National inCharlotteDresscode
In-Reply-To: <468C06BD.00000F.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
References: <468BE77A.30904@gmx.de> <468C06BD.00000F.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID: <5dc7631d09fa2ae982c9aa299d043d45@pobox.com>
I don't get around much anymore either.
martin
On Jul 4, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Brenda wrote:
> My experience must be totally limited to a different kind of dancer
> than you
> seem to be encountering as have yet to hear a person state they are not
> attending because there is a dress code.
From Dee.Hall at EmersonClimate.com Thu Jul 5 09:13:17 2007
From: Dee.Hall at EmersonClimate.com (Dee.Hall at EmersonClimate.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:13:17 -0500
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Dress Code
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <1988F5B17333324CAEDE98BA975469465FAAC2@etsmsg-slexm01.etsmsg.org>
Nasser, You rock! My husband and I are new dancers (just finishing up
classes), early 40's in age, and attended the Charlotte convention.
Here's my two cents worth on attire, and please understand I am only
trying to contribute to the advancement of this wonderful activity, not
trying to tick anyone off. Like many my age, I was apprehensive at first
about learning MWSD because of the dress code. I was immediately
relieved when I saw the younger people in my local club were wearing
prarie skirts. Great. Matter of fact, it seemed like the younger the
dancer, the longer the hemline. Cool. So I vowed I would NEVER wear one
of those silly little short skirts, in colors unknown to nature.
Fast forward to the National Convention in Charlotte. We arrived on
Friday and I was immediately caught up in the colors, glitz and
pageantry. Everywhere dresses were whirling, people were smiling. By the
end of the day, I was the proud owner of two froo froo dresses, complete
with petticoats! Hey, when in Rome, you know? My husband is still
laughing his you-know-what off.
But here's my point. It's taken me several months to warm up to the
idea, and no one had to ORDER me to do it!! My hobby, my fun, my
choice. My generation is one that does as it pleases, or we're gone.
My peers at the dance class want nothing to do with poufy dresses,
that's fine. Let's dance.
I know this is long, but one more thing... We observed a couple of much
younger squares (college age kids) in the mainstream hall on Friday
night. They were square dancing, alright, but they were cookin'!! The
girls wore full skirts below the knee, with tank tops, boots. The look
was very fresh, hip, and rockabilly. There were flourishes galore,
kicks, hops, twirls, you name it. It was a blast watching them, and
they were obviously having a blast dancing.
I know folks, that those kids are much younger than the majority of
dancers today. But I believe I caught a glimpse of the future of square
dancing, IF square dancing survives. Like it or not, I believe the
future look of square dancing as it relates to attire will have more
flexibility and originality, less polyester (hey, our generation doesn't
mind a few wrinkles, folks, let's lose the polyester of the 70's already
and get into some more breathable fibers), some cowboy boots mixed in
for good measure (and I'm talking about the gals), and a little
rockabilly edge.
And let's give everyone a choice and a chance to be individual. Embrace
change, or kiss this great American pasttime goodbye.
Dee "I'll still wear whatever I want to" Hall
Charlotte, NC
P.S. Square dancers are the greatest :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of NShukayr at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 2:09 AM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] NSDC Dress Code
jmaczko at san.rr.com writes:
> There seems to be more support for the "Traditional Attire" than some
> of dancers are willing to recognize.
Are you serious? The Callerlab market research (especially the focus
group
study) clearly shows that people are turned off by the attire. This is
a crystal clear, proven fact.
But let's assume the market research is wrong. Let's assume (for a
moment) that vast hordes of people are clamoring to wear square dance
attire.
I say: LET 'EM. I have absolutely no problem with people making their
own choice about what to wear. Each person chooses their own clothing.
In today's modern age, do we really have the right to demand other
people to wear a given style of clothes?
What if the National convention allowed people to choose their own
clothing?
You'd keep those who prefer full square dance attire, and you'd also
gain those who cannot tolerate it. Note that market research shows
more people hate the attire than like it. So by allowing everyone the
freedom of choice, events can post tremendous gains.
What's the drawback? We might (I said MIGHT) lose some of the people
who insist on dictating what others wear. Well, this problem has a
solution. What if the National convention had a hall (ONE hall) where
the full dress code was strictly enforced? That way, those who insist
on a dress code can still have their way, while the vast majority (as
proven by the market research) can be free to enjoy themselves as well.
It's time for square dancing to move forward, instead of remaining stuck
in the past.
Nasser "let each person choose their own clothes" Shukayr
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
From ljknews at mac.com Thu Jul 5 10:01:51 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:01:51 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in CharlotteDresscode
In-Reply-To: <468BC244.000003.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
References: <005f01c7be23$c64fa670$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
<468BC244.000003.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID:
At 10:52 AM -0500 7/4/07, Brenda wrote:
> The dress to gender was actually copied from the net where
> it is added to the back of programs for dances with one club.
>
> This was not something invented by me just copied from the Net.
The fact that is is unworkable for a multi-club dance is unrelated to
the identity of the original author.
--
Larry Kilgallen
From buddy at buddyweaver.com Thu Jul 5 15:28:28 2007
From: buddy at buddyweaver.com (Buddy Weaver)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:28:28 -0800
Subject: [Squaredancing] APD Square Dancing??
References: <005f01c7be23$c64fa670$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c><468BC244.000003.03704@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID: <01ed01c7bf3a$b080d4f0$650fa8c0@KIDS>
I am posting this on the "squaredancing" board as Doren's message is great
and should be heard by more good folks.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: "Doren McBroom"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: [sd-callers] DBD not APD
> In the last month, I have read in two different SD publications, the
> definitions for APD and DBD.
> Here is my take, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
> APD (All Position Dancing) was the first attempt by Callerlab to identify
> choreography of a more complex nature. i.e. more than standard
> applications. I
> believe this was even before we had the Standard Applications books
> completed.
> At some point we realized that the APD term was not the best way to phrase
> the
> intent. The major argument was that no one could be expected to know ALL
> about a given call, so the term was changed to DBD (Dance by Definition).
> The
> term APD is obsolete and not in use by Callerlab
>
> The term DBD has been left undefined except that it is anything that is
> not
> Standard Applications. The thinking here is that as soon as we begin to
> define
> it, we'll start to limit it.
>
>
>
> Let me go one step further and correct some misconceptions about DBD
> dancing.
> It is not stop and go dancing. Stop and go is a product of the caller
> (and/or
> perhaps the dancers) abilities. DBD dancing can and should be as smooth
> and
> flowing as any other dancing.
>
>
>
> Some dancer at a DBD dance will twirl and swing, just like at any other
> program.
>
>
>
> It is not just the girl dancing the boys part. There are only about 5
> calls
> that are truly gender dependant and DBD does not change that. DBD dancing
> may
> require you to dance in the non-standard arrangement (boy girl placement)
> of a
> given call, but there is more to it that just that.
>
>
>
> DBD is an integral part of the dance programs above Plus. This is the
> source
> of some debate, but most established Advanced callers would prefer that
> dancers
> understand the nature of DBD dancing before moving to Advanced or at least
> learn it as part of the Advanced Program.
>
>
>
> Doren McBroom
- - - - - - REPLY FROM BUDDY WEAVER - - - - - - - - -
Doren (and all readers),
Well said and a timely point to make, especially ..."Let me go one step
further and correct some misconceptions about DBD dancing. It is not stop
and go dancing. Stop and go is a product of the caller (and/or perhaps the
dancers) abilities. DBD dancing can and should be as smooth and flowing as
any other dancing."...
Callerlab a few years back embraced the terms: standard and extended to
describe useage of calls; example is Relay the Ducey is "standard useage"
from 0 waves with any of the five other arrangements being termed "extended
useage". It was widely understood that every dancer should know "standard"
applications.
The "stop and go" calling is becoming the norm at an alarming rate. In a
presentation at CL's convention, the "stop and go" calling is caused by the
caller extemporaneously sight calling either puzzle solving for his own
entertainment, or trying to create a puzzle for the dancer's entertainment
(are they entertained?) or out of sloppy, lazy calling technique and work
ethic. This "stop and go" is creating a generation of dancers that cannot
transition smoothly from one call to the next. As the presentation says:
"it's not the dancer's fault". The presentation is offered as a free
download from Blue Star Square Dance Music Productions - go to:
http://www.buddyweaver.com/blue_star_workshop.htm
BW
Buddy Weaver
Blue Star Records
>
From music at square-dance.com Thu Jul 5 14:43:05 2007
From: music at square-dance.com (music)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:43:05 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] National Convention Attendance
References: <003701c7bde5$ffc3c910$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
Message-ID: <006c01c7bf34$53fe0730$6401a8c0@DCM37D61>
The following site shows attendance since 1952. The last few years are scary.
http://www.rbnsn.com/nsdc/index.php?w=2
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Hinde
To: 'This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD'
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] National Convention Attendance
It is on the website for Charlotte, http://56thnsdc.com/. I don't know where the info is for the other conventions, since 1998.
Dave Hinde
--------------------------------------------------------------------
__/, at __ dave at daveswebplace.net
/O____O_| http://www.evadsti.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com [mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:20 PM
To: Square Dance Group; Square Dance Caller Group
Subject: [Squaredancing] National Convention Attendance
Some years ago the NEC used to publish the attendance records for the National Convention. Not just a total. They used to break it down by state, Canada and International. The 1998 Convention in Charlotte was the last convention that I was able to obtain the number. Does anybody know where this information can be found?
Bruce
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From miatax at comcast.net Thu Jul 5 16:24:00 2007
From: miatax at comcast.net (Bob Ensten)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:24:00 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
References: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c7bf42$6f917960$6601a8c0@bob>
Jim, the problem I have with your argument below is that those who oppose the "Traditional Attire" dress code would not have been able to attend your panel discussion. So you really have no idea what percent agree with it and what percent oppose it. Why not include that as a part of your ARTS survey at places OTHER than at the NSDC?
Bob Ensten
Windsor, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Maczko
To: 'This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD'
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
During the NSDC in Charlotte there were first time Convention attendees who participated in some of the panels who expressed their approval of the dress code - while they may not represent all new dancers, they did not have a problem with the dress code. One of the ladies admitted that when she started dancing she did not agree with the attire - and even though no one pressured her into wearing "Traditional Attire" she has willingly adopted the attire.
There seems to be more support for the "Traditional Attire" than some of dancers are willing to recognize.
Jim Maczko
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From squarekopp at gmx.de Thu Jul 5 16:29:34 2007
From: squarekopp at gmx.de (squarekopp at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:29:34 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Dress Code
Message-ID: <20070705202934.141570@gmx.net>
Hi all,
for a week you can see at
http://www.heinerfischle.de/overall.gif
what Doci Do Dolores wore, when her club implemented a dress code in 1974.
(I hope, Stan Burdick will forgive me.)
Yours squarely,
Heiner Fischle
From ljknews at mac.com Thu Jul 5 16:26:46 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:26:46 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Attendance
In-Reply-To: <00b701c7bf42$6f917960$6601a8c0@bob>
References: <00f801c7bded$7273f7d0$575be770$@rr.com>
<00b701c7bf42$6f917960$6601a8c0@bob>
Message-ID:
At 1:24 PM -0700 7/5/07, Bob Ensten wrote:
> Jim, the problem I have with your argument below is that those who oppose
> the "Traditional Attire" dress code would not have been able to attend
> your panel discussion. So you really have no idea what percent agree with
> it and what percent oppose it. Why not include that as a part of your
> ARTS survey at places OTHER than at the NSDC?
For that matter, ask dancers to fill the form out not once per dancer but
once at each dance they attend. Square dancing flourishes by how many
appearances are put in, and greater weight should be given to those doing
more of the dancing. Ginda Fisher testified that she was going dancing
four times this week. That is about twice as much as my wife does in any
given week.
Yes, eventually people will grow tired of filling out the survey, but let
them do as many as the number of times they dance if they are willing.
--
Larry Kilgallen
From cynde at twistercom.fi Fri Jul 6 03:53:54 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:53:54 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] Dress Code
References: <20070705202934.141570@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c7bfa2$cd36b430$7400a8c0@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
Good one, Heiner!
Quite a few of my recent mails went into my spam catcher so I read this
thread in a different order from which it came.
Am I understanding correctly that someone was asked to leave the convention
because of attire? My I ask what their attire was? (was it like Dolores'?)
Did they have the correct clothing with them to change into or did they have
to leave altogether? Do the convention organizers have a supply of the
'right' clothing to lend for such cases? I understand these people were
publicly humiliated by being asked to leave in front of the whole crowd.
(reading between the lines)
Cynde
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: [Squaredancing] Dress Code
> Hi all,
>
> for a week you can see at
> http://www.heinerfischle.de/overall.gif
> what Doci Do Dolores wore, when her club implemented a dress code in 1974.
> (I hope, Stan Burdick will forgive me.)
>
> Yours squarely,
> Heiner Fischle
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
From squarekopp at gmx.de Fri Jul 6 15:56:39 2007
From: squarekopp at gmx.de (squarekopp at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:56:39 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] NSDC Dress Code
Message-ID: <20070706195639.200470@gmx.net>
Dee Hall wrote:
> P.S. Square dancers are the greatest :-)
I always heared that square dancers were the nicest people in the world. But I found two translations for "nice" in my dictionairy. ;-)
Yours squarely,
Heiner Fischle
Hannover, Germany
www.heinerfischle.de
From cmbaker at tiac.net Sun Jul 8 13:31:18 2007
From: cmbaker at tiac.net (Clark Baker)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:18 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte Dress
code
In-Reply-To: <468B3D48.000043.03276@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
References: <000001c7bda0$b2a34510$17e9cf30$@com>
<468B3D48.000043.03276@BRENDA-7FD96C4B>
Message-ID: <4d7dc58988dc2544b3095d31025a9428@tiac.net>
On Jul 4, 2007, at 2:25 AM, Brenda wrote:
> Square dancing like?most public functions has always needed a dress
> code.
I point to the contra dance scene (revived in the late 60's and early
70's) as a counter example. They have no dress code, newcomers welcome
at every dance, are holding their own in attendance, have dances,
weekends, and week long dance camps, along with festivals and the lack
of a dress code has not caused any of the problems that us MWSD folks
fear.
--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker at tiac.net
From david at ameeti.us Sun Jul 8 19:50:36 2007
From: david at ameeti.us (David Ameeti)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:50:36 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] convention and visitors
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <4691784C.2070702@ameeti.us>
> It was nice that they had the convention center people manning the
> escalators so that in order to go down to them main dance halls you
> had to have a Convention Badge on. This eliminated a lot of non
> dancers just milling around looking. They were able to watch from
> window on the main floor.
I have to agree... it would be just terrible if we let non-dancers
actually come inside and watch & listen, and see how much fun we're
having. We can't have them talking to us irst-hand, and actually asking
us questions -- much better that we keep them outside and make them
watch the caged animals... errr, dancers... like in the zoo. That way
we don't be able to tell them how much fun it is and actually interact
and let them know how they can join... that would be a bad way of
encouraging them to join us in a class.
That's clearly a much better way to get the interest of non-dancers.
Good call.
--DD
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From Anniebplus at aol.com Sun Jul 8 19:58:52 2007
From: Anniebplus at aol.com (Anniebplus at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:58:52 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] convention and visitors
Message-ID:
A little "tongue in cheek" here? I agree with DD.
Anne
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From david at ameeti.us Sun Jul 8 19:59:03 2007
From: david at ameeti.us (David Ameeti)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:59:03 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Men looking like men... and women looking like women
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <46917A47.9010006@ameeti.us>
>
> Prefer to wear traditional dance clothing
That's what's great about activities such as ours... you have that right
to choose.
> however in my real life would never wear a dress this
> short, nevertheless with layers of petticoats along with
> petti-pants one can adapt.
Yes, we want an activity that people can adapt to -- they should be
forced to adapt to our standards. That's a reasonable expectation and a
great way to encourge people to join us that otherwise would not.
> One of the nice things about dressing traditional is women look
> like ladies and all the men gentlemen.
The funny part is that I've yet to have a problem identifying the women
wearing pants -- they still look VERY feminine to me. (Maybe I have a
good eye for that sort of thing.)
> This is very good for the ID allowing both sexes to feel special.
Hmmm... what if they don't want to "feel special"? What is they want to
feel comfortable?
> Be it feminine for the ladies along with masculine for the gentleman
> makes for a healthy fun night out.
Here's the odd part... I think I can have a healthy night out without
being told what to wear. Maybe I'm going to different places. I just
thought it was the activity (and only the activity), not the dress
attire that was the indicator of something being a "healthy night out".
I guess I need to do more research. (I wonder if I just dress like
dancers, women in skirts & men in long-sleeved shirts, does that mean I
don't actually need to do anything to be healthy -- 'cuz it's the
clothing?) I'm so confused.
--DD
From david at ameeti.us Sun Jul 8 20:13:39 2007
From: david at ameeti.us (David Ameeti)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:13:39 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Girls who can sew -- vs. those who can't
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <46917DB3.1020803@ameeti.us>
> "You don't have to spend a lot of money on square dance attire." If
> you know how to sew, making simple outfits can save a lot of money.
What you say is 100% correct -- if you sew. However... some simple
questions:
* How many girls today can sew? (No slight to those who can't...
but I'm speaking the reality here)
* How many girls even have time to sew? (Aren't people speaking of
so little time in their lives as it is?)
* How many activities are considered affordable only when you can
sew your own clothing?
* How many events have a clothing rule that has clothing you can
ONLY wear within that activity (I've never seen any girl EVER wear
a S/D outfit at another type of event) -- and I'm not speaking of
clothing for safety reasons but purely aesthetics only)? (Yes,
some activities do... but would anyone dare argue that that is the
majority or the exception?)
Enough said... most people buy clothing nowadays, so the argument that
it can be affordable by making your own clothing is clearly the
exception, not the rule. Let's try to speak to the majority, not the
exception.
--DD
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From david at ameeti.us Sun Jul 8 20:34:57 2007
From: david at ameeti.us (David Ameeti)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:34:57 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] Everyone there LOVED the dress code (or do they?)
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <469182B1.80307@ameeti.us>
> During the NSDC in Charlotte there were first time Convention
> attendees who participated in some of the panels who expressed their
> approval of the dress code -- while they may not represent all new
> dancers, they did not have a problem with the dress code.
Actually, that logic is like going to a Republican convention and asking
how they feel about Hillary Clinton -- and then using the results that
89% of America wouldn't vote for her.
By definition, those attending already accepted the premise of the dress
code. So, yes, they expressed "their approval of the dress code".
By that same definition, those who didn't approve of it weren't present
to express that disapproval.
So by that logic, EVERYONE there agrees... except for those that don't
-- because they weren't there to express their opinion. Actually, they
did express their opinion... and it was expressed by not attending. And
yet that is a hard lesson for many to accept.
Sadly, as has been expressed by previous posts, even those that were
present did vocalize (in some of the panels, even if off-topic) that
they did NOT agree with it. So when someone (in a previous post) said
"Since those who want to dress in a very casual manner are very few in
number", I could not stop laughing that that backwards logic. The
research says that the majority do not want the dress code, not the
other way around.
So if we go by the research already done (and not the occasional
antidote's about how "everyone I know loves it" -- we do tend to hang
around people with similar styles), the dress code hall would be very
small and the common-sense dress code would be the much larger hall.
(And I'm willing to go with that logic.)
--DD
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From squarekopp at gmx.de Tue Jul 10 16:36:24 2007
From: squarekopp at gmx.de (squarekopp at gmx.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:36:24 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Attire
Message-ID: <20070710203624.124720@gmx.net>
hi all,
being male, I am quite happy that I may dance in shirt sleeves, and not need to wear a jacket, as Henry Ford's dancers did.
See
http://www.heinerfischle.de/history/attire.htm
Yours squarely,
Heiner fischle, der Squarekopp
From htrost at gmx.de Tue Jul 10 22:31:53 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:31:53 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Attire
In-Reply-To: <20070710203624.124720@gmx.net>
References: <20070710203624.124720@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <46944119.8000907@gmx.de>
Heiner et al,
please don't forget that for Henry Ford square dancing was an activity
for his managers, and managers wore jackets that time. Always including
if they spent their spare time in an activity of the church or the
community.
Heinz
squarekopp at gmx.de wrote:
>hi all,
>
>being male, I am quite happy that I may dance in shirt sleeves, and not need to wear a jacket, as Henry Ford's dancers did.
>See
>http://www.heinerfischle.de/history/attire.htm
>
>Yours squarely,
>Heiner fischle, der Squarekopp
>
>_______________________________________________
>Squaredancing mailing list
>Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
>http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
>
>
From WA8VEC at ARRL.NET Thu Jul 12 20:10:31 2007
From: WA8VEC at ARRL.NET (Mike Gormley)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:10:31 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com>
<049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob>
Message-ID: <4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET>
>
> >
> > The convention organizers really should speak with the restaurants and
> > fast food places near the convention to make sure they can stay open
> > in the evening. There was a small shopping mall not far from the
> > convention center and almost all the fast food places were closed by 5
> > PM.
> The cafeteria across the street from the convention hall adjusted
> their hours Thursday, Friday and Saturday and extended their breakfast
> and lunch hours. They normally closed at 2:30 PM, but for the
> convnetion they reopened for dinner all three days. The food was good
> and reasonably priced, but the wait in line was sometines an hour or
> more. There were at least three other restaurants that I know
> of within a block of the convention center that were open for dinner.
>
One problem I found was, on Wednesday night between 5 pm and 8 pm, there
was no dancing yet, no vendor halls to walk through (they weren't open
until Thursday) and NO FOOD COURTS OPEN. I think somebody lost a big
opportunity to sell some food and make some money.
Mike Gormley
Full Time RV'ers currently located in the Florida Keys
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From htrost at gmx.de Fri Jul 13 01:15:34 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:15:34 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob>
<4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET>
Message-ID: <46970A76.5060401@gmx.de>
Mike et al,
> One problem I found was, on Wednesday night between 5 pm and 8 pm, there
> was no dancing yet, no vendor halls to walk through (they weren't open
> until Thursday) and NO FOOD COURTS OPEN. I think somebody lost a big
> opportunity to sell some food and make some money.
you're right,- almost only the Starbucks store was open on ground floor.
I remember this because I slendered around and thought why on the earth
people are willing to pay three to five Dollars (=work up to an hour)
just for a cup of coffee ...
I believe that all organizers of the 56th did hope or expect that all
present people would attend the buffet & show event which was running
from 5 pm till 8:30 pm.
Heinz
Germany
DH 8 SAH
From bvanhoesen at cox.net Fri Jul 13 08:18:06 2007
From: bvanhoesen at cox.net (Bill Van Hoesen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:18:06 -0500
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob><4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET>
<46970A76.5060401@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview>
Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in CharlotteHeinz -- Perhaps its been awhile since you were in the States but the only ones still earning only $3.00 - $5.00 an hour are, perhaps, the illegal aliens. I can think of nowhere in the USA now where most people are earning less than $15.00 - $20.00 an hour.
However, I agree with you, it's a ridiculous price to pay for a cup of coffee.
Bill Van Hoesen
----- Original Message -----
From: Heinz D. Trost
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Mike et al,
> One problem I found was, on Wednesday night between 5 pm and 8 pm, there
> was no dancing yet, no vendor halls to walk through (they weren't open
> until Thursday) and NO FOOD COURTS OPEN. I think somebody lost a big
> opportunity to sell some food and make some money.
you're right,- almost only the Starbucks store was open on ground floor.
I remember this because I slendered around and thought why on the earth
people are willing to pay three to five Dollars (=work up to an hour)
just for a cup of coffee ...
I believe that all organizers of the 56th did hope or expect that all
present people would attend the buffet & show event which was running
from 5 pm till 8:30 pm.
Heinz
Germany
DH 8 SAH
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From Anniebplus at aol.com Fri Jul 13 10:52:57 2007
From: Anniebplus at aol.com (Anniebplus at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:52:57 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID:
What about your minimum wage jobs, i.e. McDonalds, Wendy's, Circle K?
Anne
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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From htrost at gmx.de Fri Jul 13 11:08:05 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:08:05 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob><4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET> <46970A76.5060401@gmx.de>
<001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview>
Message-ID: <46979555.4050205@gmx.de>
Bill,
> Heinz -- Perhaps its been awhile since you were in the States but the
> only ones still earning only $3.00 - $5.00 an hour are, perhaps, the
> illegal aliens. I can think of nowhere in the USA now where most people
> are earning less than $15.00 - $20.00 an hour.
really? Wow! Last time I stayed in the USA was from Jun 26, 2007 till
July 1st, 2007...
Here we are told that a lot of American citizens will just earn minimum
wage of $ 5-6, including the whole staff at fast food stores,
restaurants and so on, and the ilegal aliens will get less.
> However, I agree with you, it's a ridiculous price to pay for a cup of
> coffee.
for a short time I worked in a pub and there I was told that coffee is
that product with which a restaurant, pub or so can make the most
profit. And now here at the school I attend together with 16 other
jobless former managers in the age of 45 and older we just closed our
coffee cash box because it's flooded with to much money which came from
our coffee drinkers who pay 030 EUR (ar. $ 0,40) per cup (nevertheless
our teachers do get their coffee for free from us)...
Well, tomorrow we will have Susie and Gert-Jan Rotscheid as special
guests of "Susies Summer ball" here in Stuttgart, Germany, cueing rounds
phase II-VI.
Unfortunately this year no German caller attended the 56th Nationals.
Ok, Don Caspar (American caller&cuer who lives in Germany) was there,
but he was there as a cuer.
Heinz
From NShukayr at aol.com Fri Jul 13 11:12:44 2007
From: NShukayr at aol.com (NShukayr at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:12:44 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID:
Regarding restaurants and such: Before arriving in Charlotte, we used the
internet to research places nearby and/or open late. We therefore had no
problem finding good restaurants even at 2 or 3 in the morning (when is when the
callers' party starts to slow down). :-) Some of the restaurants were off
the main drag, but many were right there on the Tryon or College Street and
within a few blocks of the convention center.
Of course we'll do similar research, to scope out the area, prior to the
Wichita convention!
This might make a good topic of discussion in May or early June!
Nasser Shukayr
Harlingen, Texas
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
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From bvanhoesen at cox.net Fri Jul 13 14:10:27 2007
From: bvanhoesen at cox.net (Bill Van Hoesen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:10:27 -0500
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob><4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET> <46970A76.5060401@gmx.de><001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview>
<46979555.4050205@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <002501c7c579$18206780$6401a8c0@Seaview>
Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in CharlotteHeinz -- The minimum wage here in the States, as of 24 Jul 2007, will be $5.85 per hour. Add to that FICA and Medicare taxes (6.20% & 1.45% respectively) and the actual minimum wage is more like $6.30. It's true some people are earning minimum wage, but not most like I said.
Occupations here that depend on gratuities are exempt from minimum wage requirements unlike Germany. It's customary now to tip anywhere from 15% to 20%, at least in this area of Florida. It is not unknown for waiters/waitresses to earn from $200 - $400 a night in tips during the prime tourist season. Here in northwest Florida, between Pensacola and Panama City, the unemployment rate is about 2.5% so even burger-flippers at Mickey-D's and Wendy's start out making between $7.50 - $8.50 per hour.
Bill Van Hoesen
----- Original Message -----
From: Heinz D. Trost
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Bill,
> Heinz -- Perhaps its been awhile since you were in the States but the
> only ones still earning only $3.00 - $5.00 an hour are, perhaps, the
> illegal aliens. I can think of nowhere in the USA now where most people
> are earning less than $15.00 - $20.00 an hour.
really? Wow! Last time I stayed in the USA was from Jun 26, 2007 till
July 1st, 2007...
Here we are told that a lot of American citizens will just earn minimum
wage of $ 5-6, including the whole staff at fast food stores,
restaurants and so on, and the ilegal aliens will get less.
> However, I agree with you, it's a ridiculous price to pay for a cup of
> coffee.
for a short time I worked in a pub and there I was told that coffee is
that product with which a restaurant, pub or so can make the most
profit. And now here at the school I attend together with 16 other
jobless former managers in the age of 45 and older we just closed our
coffee cash box because it's flooded with to much money which came from
our coffee drinkers who pay 030 EUR (ar. $ 0,40) per cup (nevertheless
our teachers do get their coffee for free from us)...
Well, tomorrow we will have Susie and Gert-Jan Rotscheid as special
guests of "Susies Summer ball" here in Stuttgart, Germany, cueing rounds
phase II-VI.
Unfortunately this year no German caller attended the 56th Nationals.
Ok, Don Caspar (American caller&cuer who lives in Germany) was there,
but he was there as a cuer.
Heinz
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From htrost at gmx.de Fri Jul 13 14:52:38 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:52:38 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <002501c7c579$18206780$6401a8c0@Seaview>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob><4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET> <46970A76.5060401@gmx.de><001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview> <46979555.4050205@gmx.de>
<002501c7c579$18206780$6401a8c0@Seaview>
Message-ID: <4697C9F6.60103@gmx.de>
Bill,
> Heinz -- The minimum wage here in the States, as of 24 Jul 2007, will be
> $5.85 per hour. Add to that FICA and Medicare taxes (6.20% & 1.45%
> respectively) and the actual minimum wage is more like $6.30. It's true
> some people are earning minimum wage, but not most like I said.
oops, that's interesting.
>
> Occupations here that depend on gratuities are exempt from minimum wage
> requirements
I know that when minimum wage was at $ 4.55 e.g. room maids got paid
just about $ 2.50/hour and have to hope that they'd get tipped by the
guest.
> unlike Germany.
In Germany we don't have any minimum wage.
> It's customary now to tip anywhere from
> 15% to 20%, at least in this area of Florida.
yes, travel guides for the USA recommend that for tip the tourist should
double the tax.
> It is not unknown for
> waiters/waitresses to earn from $200 - $400 a night in tips during the
> prime tourist season. Here in northwest Florida, between Pensacola and
> Panama City, the unemployment rate is about 2.5% so even burger-flippers
> at Mickey-D's and Wendy's start out making between $7.50 - $8.50 per hour.
Maybe I should try to get a green card for the USA...
But first I'll try to finish the quality management class which I
actually attend, pass the exams and get the certificates as
"Business-Manager Quality" and "Business-Manager Quality Excellence", too,-
and I also try to get back my old skills in square- and round dancing, too.
Heinz
From GSMom81131 at aol.com Fri Jul 13 17:28:20 2007
From: GSMom81131 at aol.com (GSMom81131 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:28:20 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID:
Nasser,
Thanks for your input regarding restaurants that stayed open extra hours for
the convention. It seems that many convention goers don't understand that
the City where the convention is held makes these types of decisions. And of
course, the GC of the NSDC does whatever he can to get places to do "extras"
for the convention goers.
I'm sorry to say that I feel more and more that people would rather grumble
about things that actually pitch in and help change things they don't like.
I hope all is going well for you.
Barbara
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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From Jryanvta at att.net Fri Jul 13 17:45:54 2007
From: Jryanvta at att.net (Jryanvta at att.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:45:54 +0000
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Message-ID: <071320072145.10308.4697F29200073E120000284421602806510E9B90020E979DB6@att.net>
Not to beat a dead horse, but I work for a social service agency and folks start out at $8/hr. So there are many, many folks not even earning $15/hr. And this is in So Cal where wages are a bit higher than most.
John
-------------- Original message from "Bill Van Hoesen" : --------------
Heinz -- Perhaps its been awhile since you were in the States but the only ones still earning only $3.00 - $5.00 an hour are, perhaps, the illegal aliens. I can think of nowhere in the USA now where most people are earning less than $15.00 - $20.00 an hour.
However, I agree with you, it's a ridiculous price to pay for a cup of coffee.
Bill Van Hoesen
----- Original Message -----
From: Heinz D. Trost
To: This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
Mike et al,
> One problem I found was, on Wednesday night between 5 pm and 8 pm, there
> was no dancing yet, no vendor halls to walk through (they weren't open
> until Thursday) and NO FOOD COURTS OPEN. I think somebody lost a big
> opportunity to sell some food and make some money.
you're right,- almost only the Starbucks store was open on ground floor.
I remember this because I slendered around and thought why on the earth
people are willing to pay three to five Dollars (=work up to an hour)
just for a cup of coffee ...
I believe that all organizers of the 56th did hope or expect that all
present people would attend the buffet & show event which was running
from 5 pm till 8:30 pm.
Heinz
Germany
DH 8 SAH
_______________________________________________
Squaredancing mailing list
Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
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From cmbaker at tiac.net Sat Jul 14 00:28:38 2007
From: cmbaker at tiac.net (Clark Baker)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:28:38 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Clark's experiences at the National Convention
Message-ID: <1d6a71d1f1fe2c31eb9c2d089da73bb2@tiac.net>
Two weeks and many e-mails have passed since dancing at the National
Square Dance Convention in Charlotte, NC and thought I would give you
my observations.
This was the 6th convention for my daughter and I and we have the
routine down pretty well. I again signed up to call which allowed us
to stay in the "callers" hotel with convenient access to the
convention center. With respect to dancing, we knew what to expect
and how to pace ourselves. Attendance was around 8000 this year.
We spent two days driving down from Boston and arrived on Tuesday
night. GSI was hosting a free caller school which some of Laura's
friends were taking so we checked into the hotel and walked over to
find the caller school. After I dropped her off I attended the
Contralab sponsored Energizer dance. Contralab hosts this dance and
their annual meeting right before the Nationals each year.
Unfortunately the dance was not well attended so I danced for an hour
or so and headed back over to the caller school.
Laura hung out with friends at the caller school for Wednesday while I
made my second attempt to preserve the recordings of the great Stanley
Winchester (see http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker/winchester.html). This
time I was successful and now have digital version of his entire
public collection. The first half of this collection is available on
my web page and the second half will appear as soon as I get it
edited.
Wednesday night the convention started and I give it two thumbs up. I
and others I spoke with found it to be well scheduled, well run, with
few glitches.
The convention center was the right size for our convention -- we took
it over and utilized most of the space. Flooring in the smaller halls
was black, plastic, interlocking tiles overtop carpet. The large
halls were polished concrete. Sound in the small halls was fine with
good sound isolation. Sound in the large halls was too loud for my
tastes and there were some sound fights (e.g., between live music and
the adjacent Plus hall). A/C was OK but not impressive.
I spent most of my calling time in the Challenge hall. While I was
scheduled for C1, C2, and C3 as far as I know we did not have a square
for C3 so those times were dropped back to C2 or C1 plus teaching some
C2. I usually called to 3 or 4 squares and I noticed that the morning
"intro" sessions had a full room of ~9 squares. As expected, the
level was "soft" and I used my easiest cards.
In the late 1960's the National convention was unwilling to accept
challenge dancing so those callers created their own convention, and
scheduled it for one week before Nationals. This year the Academy for
Advanced and Challenge Enthusiasts (see
http://www.ceder.net/aace.php4) attracted about 400 attendees dancing
A2 through C4.
As a caller I appreciated and made use of both the caller hospitality
room, complete with light snacks, and the secure bag check room.
When I wasn't calling I usually spent most of my dance time in the
contra hall. We usually had one long line and occasionally two long
lines. While virtually anyone at the convention could dance in this
room, few of them know that and most are kept away by the "lesson"
mentality which has been drilled into them by their prior dance
experience -- if you haven't taken the lessons, you can't dance with
us.
I dragged a few friends into the contra hall and they had a good time
and stayed around. I also made an effort to dance with people who
poked their heads in, especially if they were wearing a Solo ribbon.
The contra hall is also a good place for single dancers since we are
more likely to change partners every dance, even if we are married to
someone (same as in the real world of contras).
The convention scheduled Doug Davis and Nasser Shukayr for a single
Hexagon presentation and I heard it was well attended and went well.
Several people were disappointed that it only happened once.
Each night I danced two hours of Hexagon in the back of the Plus hall.
Over the years we have built up a contingent of dancers who enjoy this
and have the knowledge. With a strong Hex we can incorporate one or
two newbies and this year was no exception. I was able to expose 4
callers and several dancers to this mind-bending form of square
dancing. More info at http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker
My "stretch" experience this year was calling in the Handicapable
hall. I have attended several presentations on calling for
Handicapable dancers by Michelle McCarty and this year she asked
several caller if they would give a try at call in this hall. I was
happy to support her, her efforts, and the dancers. With the
information she sent all of us beforehand, including a list of calls,
I was able to do a good job with my 20 minute slot. Kudos to
Charlotte for bringing back the Handicapable hall.
One of our local dancers was scheduled for a 9am seminar which Laura
and I attended. It was a good thing too because it attracted only a
few people who weren't friends of the speakers. Too bad since Desi
and Jill had a well thought out presentation on Youth, Family, and the
life cycle of dancing. I heard that he gave a slightly different
version of this talk in a later time slot and the talk was better
attended.
This was Laura's 6th and last year in the youth hall and she said that
it was the best youth hall of her 6 years. She notes that it was
dancing on carpet (no black plastic tiles) -- why not?
I attended no exhibitions this year. Often I use this as a way to
rest my feet but didn't seem to need it this time. Probably I was
doing less dancing.
All told I called about 5 hours over 3 days. I spent $232 on gas and
$1031 on hotel. I was disappointed with the hotel. The room rate was
$129 which is OK. However, it didn't include a breakfast. I really
enjoyed the breakfasts last year with all the callers to talk to.
Also, on top of the $129 you have to add $9.35 state tax, $8.74 room
tax, and $2.58 special assessment tax. Finally $18 per day for
parking and sometimes it was full but you still paid $18. The lobby
was being renovated and was unusable. The bar worked :-) For those
kind of prices, I wanted breakfast, free internet, and free parking.
Food: The local area seemed woefully unprepared for us with respect to
food. Several times the easy to see and find establishments closed at
10 or 11 at night. The nearest large breakfast place ran out of food.
The hotel had little to offer.
I heard from someone that the new light rail system was supposed to be
working in time for our convention but is delayed until September.
Had it been working we could have taken it to the restaurant area in
the city. Knowing that it would not be working, the Charlotte
committee got the convention center to set up a great buffet next to
the large Plus hall. It took me too long to figure out that this was
a great way to have at least one meal a day. It had good food and was
reasonably priced. I understand that the owner of this concession was
very happy with us and his results.
The restaurants in North Carolina have to post their health inspection
results. The best would be 100. Most of the places I ate in ranged
from 90 to 99 (a fast food joint).
Dress code: I continued to violate the dress code during the day. I
understand that at least two "dress code" incidents happened and they
certainly were the talk of the convention and the e-mail lists after
convention. I am not in favor of any dress codes for callers or
dancers.
Quality of calling: I was impressed with the large number of callers
who I don't know who can call good patter and belt out great singing
calls. We have a lot of quality callers in this activity, many of who
are probably local or regional and just "doing their job" and doing a
fine job.
Rounds: There was lots of round dancing and I did none of it. I did
see and talk with several leaders I know.
NEC: The NEC hosted an afternoon snack and beverage party one
afternoon. I believe this is to thank callers for paying to call at
their convention. I forgot to go and heard that it was thinly
attended. The room was a little hard to locate.
Callerlab: Callerlab hosted an afternoon snack and beverage party on
the next afternoon. I stayed for an hour or two and had nice chats
with several of you. This was a benefit for Callerlab members.
ACA: I saw little ACA presence at this convention. As far as I know,
all the dance programs were Callerlab programs.
One area in which the Nationals can do better is showing us what our
options are at any particular time. There is a lot going on at once
and, unfortunately, even when you purchase the convention program and
the daily pocket guides, it is hard to see what your alternatives are.
The seminars, clinics, and panels are listed in one place, exhibitions
another, dancing a third (spread over many pages), etc. Check out how
NEFFA presents their options. Also, the NEFFA grids are posted in the
web in advance of their Festival: http://www.neffa.org/grid/index.html
I am appreciative for all the hard work and meetings that it takes to
put on such a large party. Any insight I have had behind the scenes
of convention planning has shown me dedicated volunteers who are
trying their best given lots of rules and regulations and a limited
budget. They want to put on the best convention possible and they
gave us a good show. Congratulations and props to all of them.
------
ARTS: I knew that the ARTS board meeting was talking place on Sunday
and attended as an observer after dropping my daughter off at the
airport. There were a few of us in the room so if this is of interest
to you, perhaps you will attend next year.
--
Clark Baker, Belmont, MA
cmbaker at tiac.net
From htrost at gmx.de Sat Jul 14 00:55:35 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 06:55:35 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <46985747.90809@gmx.de>
Barbara et al,
> Thanks for your input regarding restaurants that stayed open extra hours
> for the convention. It seems that many convention goers don't
> understand that the City where the convention is held makes these types
> of decisions. And of course, the GC of the NSDC does whatever he can to
> get places to do "extras" for the convention goers.
yes, when I arrived in my hotel there was a list of restaurants in the
area, most signed with "$$$" or "$$$$", the only restaurant with just
one "$" was the sports bar in a hotel of the same chain my hotel did
belong to. This list was a nice service. Also nice I found that hotel
staff wore ribbons with "Welcome 56th Nationals SD Convention" or so.
The area around Convention center is the Charlotte financial district
and so the inexpensive restaurants /fast food stores there are just
opened through weekdays Monday to Friday when the bankers do need them.
Maybe we would be able to reach that more restaurants will get open late
where we are with a Nationals, but only if we would be large enough,
e.g. 20.000 or more,- but now, with the actually decreasing numbers of
attendees (this time just 8021)and the increasing average age of the
attendees we can't expect this really.
>
> I'm sorry to say that I feel more and more that people would rather
> grumble about things that actually pitch in and help change things they
> don't like.
Usually people do complain the most important problems to some
volunteers of the Conventions, e.g. if the sound is bad, or if the
hotel-pass paid shuttle service to/from te hotels don't work. And if
those volunteers do transmit those complaints to their chiefs then the
problems will get fixed (if possible).
But the not that burning problems (in the case of late night open
restaurants usually those who stayed at a hotel with three or more stars
had the possibility to get at least a snack at the bar of the hotel,-
but a lot of people are tired after a Convention day and just want rest
their feet and fall asleep) are discussed later, after the event. And at
least that is the time when the organizers of the next Nationals shall
listen on all possible channels, so they could try to fix those problems
, include wishes and recommendations for their upcoming event...
It should be, and usually it is a continous process of improvements.
Heinz
Germany
From cynde at twistercom.fi Sat Jul 14 04:38:08 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:38:08 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] Discussion on the National in Charlotte
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob><4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET> <46970A76.5060401@gmx.de><001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview>
<46979555.4050205@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <001301c7c5f2$4e0b2820$eeb4fb54@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
Hi
Here's a page with some info
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm
The federal minimum wage for covered, nonexempt employees is $5.15 per hour.
But http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm shows the states with no law
which allows them to pay less I suppose. Heinz, are you being re-educated
because you are out of managerial work after the age of 45? That's something
I don't think happens in US, I don't know. 0.40? for coffee is quite high,
don't you buy it from
Lidl?
Do you ever dance in the Hamburg area?
Smiling at the high cost off coffee here in Finland,
Cynde
>> Heinz -- Perhaps its been awhile since you were in the States but the
>> only ones still earning only $3.00 - $5.00 an hour are, perhaps, the
>> illegal aliens. I can think of nowhere in the USA now where most people
>> are earning less than $15.00 - $20.00 an hour.
From htrost at gmx.de Sat Jul 14 05:20:24 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:20:24 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Coffee prices at Starbucks Nationals and somewhere
else, was: Re: Discussion on the National in Charlotte
In-Reply-To: <001301c7c5f2$4e0b2820$eeb4fb54@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
References: <20070703121345.nxn23ldthcsoow4g@www.rbnsn.com> <049a01c7bdc1$76d88e70$6601a8c0@bob><4696C2F7.1020408@ARRL.NET> <46970A76.5060401@gmx.de><001701c7c547$df740120$6401a8c0@Seaview> <46979555.4050205@gmx.de>
<001301c7c5f2$4e0b2820$eeb4fb54@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
Message-ID: <46989558.8050309@gmx.de>
Cynde,
> http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm
> The federal minimum wage for covered, nonexempt employees is $5.15 per hour.
> But http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm shows the states with no law
> which allows them to pay less I suppose.
thank you.
> Heinz, are you being re-educated
> because you are out of managerial work after the age of 45?
we are 17 people between 45 and 59 years old jobless people, most had
jobs as managers before, before the class started we were jobless
between four weeks and more than five years.
Now we get lessons in quality management, quality standards (ISO 9000,
9001, 9004, OHSAS 18001, ISO 14001, TS 19949 and more), quality tools,
marketing, controlling, rhetoric, cost account, team building,
financing, audit training, and so on.
And so we hope to get a new job...
> 0.40? for coffee is quite high,
oh, that's 30 EURO cent, it's inexpensive enough that the coffee maker
in the back is used very often through the day. (At school cafeteria the
y charge 1,--EUR per cup...). Well, nevertheless the coffee is that
inexpensive in our class and we use a very good name branded coffee plus
sugar, milk and coffee filters we get enough money in the coffee cash
box (actually nearly 70 EUR (ar. $ 100)), so now the coffee and bottled
mineral water is free for all class members until the coffee cash box
will get empty.
> don't you buy it from
> Lidl?
no. Our coffee drinkers do prefer Tchibo.
> Do you ever dance in the Hamburg area?
in the past I attended a few special dances there.
Heinz
Germany
DH 8 SAH
From eaglecaller at sisna.com Sat Jul 14 13:30:03 2007
From: eaglecaller at sisna.com (Eagle Caller)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:30:03 -0600
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Message-ID: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
Hi everyone:
My wife and I are doing a 3R presentation at the State Mtg. and I wanted to get some different point of view from you. Below are some questions on Theme Dances. Would you please answer and send them back to us. If you are would please indicate at the bottom if you are a caller or dancer so I can file it in the right pile.
Ervin
THEME DANCES:
1. How often should a club have a Theme Dance?
Monthly
Semi Monthly
Other
2. How involved do you feel the dancers get?
Own club participations
Everyone to include visitors
Other
3. Do you think it draws visitors?
4. Do the clubs include the caller/Cuer?
Music
Costume
5. What kinds of themes do you use?
Annual
Just for fun
6. Do the clubs offer prizes for best costume?
Who is responsible for decision?
7. Should the Caller/Cuer assume some?
Patriotic/Valentines/Christmas/Halloween/Irish?
Thanks for your help
Ervin Wyatt
Montrose, Colorado
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From htrost at gmx.de Sun Jul 15 05:15:24 2007
From: htrost at gmx.de (Heinz D. Trost)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:15:24 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
In-Reply-To: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
References: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
Message-ID: <4699E5AC.7010705@gmx.de>
Ervin,
> THEME DANCES:
>
> 1. How often should a club have a Theme Dance?
> Monthly
> Semi Monthly
> Other
E.g. in the years when we don't have a class (but have some workshop
tips between) from our experience it's a good thing to have a monthly
"just dancing - workshop-free" - this also is possible if we do have a
very orderly class which is perfect in timing, too. (It's hard to say,
but our last two classes were absolute out of any timing...)
For all other circumstances:
At a very few possibilities. This, because dancers usually attend club
dance nights to get dance, and some workshop tips. Also always the
biggest problem is, that all theme dances do need time and
men/womenpower for invitiations, preparations, decorations, additional
time for the clean-up, transportation and a storage for the used
materials. The most heavy part IMHO is that all the work usually is done
by just a very few club people, mostly the board officers, but usually
the same from theme dance to theme dance. A very few do work, the
majority just will dance.
>
> 2. How involved do you feel the dancers get?
> Own club participations
> Everyone to include visitors
> Other
For theme dances we do invite our members and e.g. the leaders of two
other round dance clubs in our area. In some cases I also put the
information on the internet site of our club, too. We don't make more
promotions because our weekly dance space is limited and it's just
enough for our own dancers and a smaller number of guests (floor will be
overcrowed if attended from more that e.g. 35 couples, I believe).
>
> 3. Do you think it draws visitors?
Occasionally.
But guest dancers: Usually a few. In the case of our annual Mardi Gras
dance we can expect at least eight to twenty dancers from a partner club
every year. This because at this day this club can't dance on their
regular dance location. A few from other clubs, too.
>
> 4. Do the clubs include the caller/Cuer?
> Music
> Costume
For the music yes
>
> 5. What kinds of themes do you use?
> Annual
Mardi Gras dance (because it's on Tuesday night before ash wednesday)
> Just for fun
e.g. upcoming club dance night will be an "OSKAR" night. Nominated are:
Our club cuer, her cueing husband, our vice-club cuer and her cueing and
calling husband.
I don't know what will be go on this Tuesday night. I just know for
sure: The event will end at 10:00 pm with everybody in the circle
(friendship ring) singing the friendship song in English and German.
> 6. Do the clubs offer prizes for best costume?
at Mardi Gras dance: Yes
> Who is responsible for decision?
Usually the club officers.
>
> 7. Should the Caller/Cuer assume some?
> Patriotic/Valentines/Christmas/Halloween/Irish?
In general on theme dances I expect that she will offer more easy stuff,
so almost all dancers should be able to dance most time and e.g. the
music at Mardi Gras should be more happy and humorous.
We don't dance at our club Christmas party. (Some other clubs do).
Heinz
Stuttgart
Germany
Webmaster e.g. of "http://www.the-survivors.de"
From dave at daveswebplace.net Sun Jul 15 10:25:38 2007
From: dave at daveswebplace.net (Dave Hinde)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:25:38 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
In-Reply-To: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
Message-ID: <000a01c7c6ec$04a59350$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
I just had a good experience with a Theme Dance that I thought I'd pass
along. We had a dance scheduled for July 6 and tought out attendance would
suffer because it was just after July 4th, so we made it a "Red, White, and
Blue" theme dance, with a prize for the most patriotically dressed. Our
attendance was double what it usually is. So we've decided that our August
dance would be "The Watermelon Crawl".
Having said that, I think Theme Dances can be overdone. A couple of our
local clubs publish a list of their dances for a year at a time. Everyone
(they dance twice a month) has some type of theme. When every dance has a
theme, then none of they are anything special, the theme is largely ignored.
Years ago I danced with a club that met every week. We decided to make one
dance a month a Theme Dance. That seemed to work out well. It gave the
members something to look forward to, one night they could plan something
special, make a special refreshment, maybe dress a little differently, etc.
Dave Hinde
--------------------------------------------------------------------
__/, at __ dave at daveswebplace.net
/O____O_| http://www.evadsti.net
_____
From: squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com
[mailto:squaredancing-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of Eagle Caller
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 1:30 PM
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Hi everyone:
My wife and I are doing a 3R presentation at the State Mtg. and I wanted to
get some different point of view from you. Below are some questions on
Theme Dances. Would you please answer and send them back to us. If you are
would please indicate at the bottom if you are a caller or dancer so I can
file it in the right pile.
Ervin
THEME DANCES:
1. How often should a club have a Theme Dance?
Monthly
Semi Monthly
Other
2. How involved do you feel the dancers get?
Own club participations
Everyone to include visitors
Other
3. Do you think it draws visitors?
4. Do the clubs include the caller/Cuer?
Music
Costume
5. What kinds of themes do you use?
Annual
Just for fun
6. Do the clubs offer prizes for best costume?
Who is responsible for decision?
7. Should the Caller/Cuer assume some?
Patriotic/Valentines/Christmas/Halloween/Irish?
Thanks for your help
Ervin Wyatt
Montrose, Colorado
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From ljknews at mac.com Sun Jul 15 14:41:28 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:41:28 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square dance
article
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7c6ec$04a59350$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
References: <000a01c7c6ec$04a59350$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
Message-ID:
On another list, Daniel Jason of Times Squares gave us advance information
about an article to appear in the Arts & Leisure section in the July 15
(Sunday) issue of the New York Times. On page 21, below the fold, is
"City Folk Who Feel the Call of the Do-Si-Do", discussing Times Squares,
Al'e'mo Squares and a Contra group called Country Dance New York.
I thought it was the most accurate and thorough MWSD articles I have seen
in the popular press. But they did use the phrase "more than 200 calls"
for a number I count as 1171 (462 if you leave out C4). Perhaps that
inaccuracy in a public piece is in our favor :-)
--
Larry Kilgallen
From jmaczko at san.rr.com Sun Jul 15 17:02:08 2007
From: jmaczko at san.rr.com (Jim Maczko)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:02:08 -0700
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square
dance article
References: <000a01c7c6ec$04a59350$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
Message-ID: <023401c7c723$684bcf50$0100a8c0@hpaed611b7ddd3>
The article below appeared in the July 15,2007 - New York Times - is a
reasonably accurate portrayal of our Dance activities.
I would encourage everyone to share this article - with appropriate credit
to the New York Time - to all dancers. This could be a useful tool to add
credibility to enticing other media to cover our activities.
Jim Maczko - Past Chairman of the Governing Board (2004-2006)
ALLIANCE OF ROUND, TRADITIONAL AND SQUARE-DANCE, INC.
Post Office Box 712918
San Diego, California 92171-2918
619-295-2635
jmaczko at san.rr.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
City Folk Who Feel the Call of the Do-Si-Do
By JOY GOODWIN
Published: July 15, 2007
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image
Michael Nagle for The New York Times
The Times Squares are comfortable when men partner with men.
IN a church basement decorated with balloons and twinkling lights, 100
dancers organized in four long rows faced their partners. On the stage at
one end, a band began a fiddle-and-banjo tune. As a man rattled off the
names of steps into his mike, the lines on the floor rearranged themselves
in shifting patterns, a controlled whirl of revolving bodies and twirling
skirts.
Less than a mile away in a middle school gym, 20 couples arrayed in five
moving squares let out whoops and hollers as they stamped through promenades
and do-si-dos to a recording of "Sweet Georgia Brown."
It was another Saturday night in the West Village, where every weekend
scores of New Yorkers take part in a folk tradition long associated with
barns and bolo ties: square dancing. Though the pastime's popularity has
declined since 1976, when the National Square Dance Convention in Anaheim,
Calif., drew a record crowd of 40,000, today New York - like Boston,
Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, Seattle and dozens of other American cities -
supports a modest but resilient square-dancing and contradancing scene.
Both forms trace their roots to 17th-century English country dancing, and
both use callers - skilled announcers who call out real-time instructions to
the dancers. But while square dancing evolved from the French quadrille,
whose basic unit is four couples in a square, contradancing is organized in
long opposing lines of paired couples.
Country Dance New York is the latest in a series of organizations that have
been holding beginner-friendly contradances since 1951 at the Church of the
Village, at West 13th Street and Seventh Avenue South. The practice of
Modern Western square dancing - which requires newcomers to take a formal
sequence of classes before attending events - is represented by two local
clubs. The itinerant Times Squares, established in 1985, meet at a number of
Manhattan locations, including P. S. 3; and the 29-year-old Al'e'mo Squares
hold dances every other Sunday at a church in Gravesend, Brooklyn.
Today's urban square dancers may check their clubs' schedules on the
Internet and arrive by subway, but there are echoes of square dancing's
small-town past at events sponsored by these New York clubs. All three -
Country Dance New York, the Times Squares and the Al'e'mo Squares - are
mom-and-pop endeavors, organized by volunteers who do everything from
booking the callers to handling the cash box at the door. (Tickets run from
$5 to $10.) Borrowed school gymnasiums and church basements serve as dance
halls, as they do in the rest of the country. All three clubs have potluck
snack tables, and two of the three have 50-50 raffles. And at the Al'e'mo
Squares, dancers often wear the western-style shirts and pioneer skirts
still favored by the country's stricter Modern Western clubs.
But there are also departures from tradition. At a Times Squares event
earlier this year, men in jeans and shorts swung their partners - in most
cases, other men. The group is one of more than 60 gay and lesbian clubs
that have sprung up throughout the United States since the International
Association of Gay Square Dance Clubs was founded in 1983. Though most of
the nation's square-dance clubs still cater to male-female couples, gay
clubs are responsible for a sizable percentage of Modern Western's growth
over the last two decades - especially in cities, where most gay clubs are
located.
At the P. S. 3 gymnasium, the Times Squares' predominantly male dancers
skillfully executed the caller's instructions, unfazed by directives like
"promenade the lady on your right" and "bow to the gentleman on your left."
Dayle Hodge, 45, the event's caller, said that in 25 years he had observed a
few differences between gay and traditional clubs. "At gay clubs the energy
level is typically higher, and the dancers add more flourishes to the
steps," Mr. Hodge said. Gay dancers, in his experience, tend to be
extremely comfortable with the calls, and many are accustomed to switching
between the man's part and the woman's part as needed. "I can call more
quickly and more intricately at gay clubs," he said. "But gay or straight,
the calls are the same."
Identical calls are used at the Times Squares and the Al'e'mo Squares - and
for that matter, in Tennessee and Wisconsin - because today's Modern Western
clubs support a nationally standardized curriculum developed by the
Callerlab organization. Founded in 1971 by a group of callers, Callerlab
codifies the steps used in square dancing. Its guidelines require dancers to
take several months' worth of classes and master a defined vocabulary of
steps before attending their first event. Thus there is little on-the-spot
teaching at a Modern Western dance - and there are no beginners.
There are, however, several cumulative levels of mastery in Modern Western
square dancing. Dancers can stop at Basic (a program of 53 calls) or
continue through seven more programs to the highest level, with more than
200 calls.
"Modern Western square dancing is like crossword puzzles," said Nick
Martellacci, 55, a Times Squares member who also calls and teaches classes.
"Some people like doing the Reader's Digest puzzle. And there are other
people who aren't happy until they're doing the Sunday Times puzzle in ink,
without a dictionary."
>From a raised platform, Mr. Hodge surveyed the floor as he raced through a
series of calls. He was doing what he calls sight calling, in which the
caller, who has nothing written down, choreographs each dance on the fly,
making sure to reconcile all the patterns to bring the dancers "back home"
to the place where they started by the end of the song.
"Square dancing is a language," Mr. Hodge explained. "The definitions are
given by Callerlab. There are some rules to the language, just as you can't
use eight nouns and no verb in a sentence. But by and large, how I put the
calls together is up to me."
On the floor, the dancers concentrated intently on reacting to a sequence of
calls they had never before heard. The Times Squares are not, however, an
all-work-and-no-play kind of club. As the dancers trekked through the calls,
they improvised flourishes, like bumping hips and slapping hands.
Some wore name badges stamped with the club's name; a smattering of gold
badges designated the club's 10-year members. The participants, most of them
longtime New Yorkers, included nurses, actors, accountants, teachers, a
doctor, a costume designer, a market researcher and a visiting couple from a
club in Oregon. The youngest was 39.
At the Al'e'mo Squares in Brooklyn one spring night, the median age was
considerably higher. Most of the members were retirees, and a member couple's
50th-anniversary party had reduced attendance a bit. Still, the dancers on
hand were an enthusiastic bunch. Most sported western wear in red and white,
the club's signature colors, and several wore club badges festooned with
ribbons and small charms called dangles.
"They're like Boy Scout merit badges," said Walter Lasky, the club's
historian. He pointed to a dog-shaped charm marked "Rover," awarded for
traveling 1,000 miles to dance at another club. And he showed off the club's
"raid banner," where visiting members of other clubs had been affixing their
pins for almost three decades.
A look at the banner revealed why the tradition of "raiding" another club is
on the wane in these parts. Most of the clubs represented - the Ocean Waves
and Richmond Dancers of Staten Island, the Kings Squares of Brooklyn, the
Queens Squares, the Big Apple Squares - are now defunct.
The pins and badges hark back to the 1950s and '60s, when American square
dancing was in its heyday. Like bowling leagues and bridge clubs,
square-dance groups experienced rapid growth in the postwar years before
tapering off in the 1980s. Just as Callerlab fixed a list of standard calls
in 1971, the style and accouterments of Modern Western square dancing seem
to have fossilized in the '60s and early '70s. The traditional square-dance
attire worn by the Al'e'mo Squares and other clubs has less to do with the
Old West than with the fashions featured on television shows like "Lawrence
Welk" or "Hee Haw."
Watching the dancers respond to calls like "star through" and "wheel and
deal," Mr. Lasky of the Al'e'mo Squares nodded approvingly at a visiting
woman who wore what he called "a real square-dancing outfit" - a dress with
a flaring petticoat skirt. In keeping with longstanding tradition, "we
almost insist that the men wear long sleeves," he said. "But summertime is
slowly becoming more casual. The sleeves get shorter. Some men even wear
short pants."
At Country Dance New York one Saturday night, by comparison, there were no
costumes, badges or banners, and no squares - just long lines of paired
dancers. Moreover, a handful of novices - emboldened by a 45-minute beginner
workshop before the dance - were being shepherded along by the seasoned
dancers. Here the caller's role was not to challenge the dancers, but to
bolster them. The democratic spirit of early American square dancing, which
embraced the concept of callers to make it easier for all comers to
participate, was alive and well.
As a live band played an up-tempo fiddle version of "Bei Mir Bist du
Schoen," each couple danced for 30 seconds with a pair of "neighbors," then
progressed down the line to a new set of neighbors and danced the same
pattern again.
Compared with their Modern Western counterparts, the contradancers looked
young, relaxed and recreational. People in their 20s wearing tie-dyed
T-shirts danced with middle-aged veterans in print skirts and Teva sandals.
Many recalled being introduced to contradancing in college; after moving to
New York, they said, they had looked up the local club on the Internet. The
event's caller was a chemist by day. The entire scene recalled the title of
a 1995 scholarly article about the demographics of contradancing, "Yuppies
Invaded My Tradition at Midnight."
Standing over the potluck table during a break, the perspiring members
described "dawn dances" in New England, where they had promenaded through
the night, and the club's own English country dances, which required further
instruction and had a "more elegant, Jane Austen feeling." More than one
married couple said they had met at a contradance. Members said they prided
themselves on welcoming newcomers and frequently changing partners.
"We're this little displaced group," said Olivia Janovitz, an Upper West
Sider who started dancing with the club in the early 1980s. "We should
probably be in some little town in New England. But instead this is our
small-town community, in the middle of the city."
----- Original Message -----
From: "ljknews"
To: "This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD"
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square dance
article
> On another list, Daniel Jason of Times Squares gave us advance information
> about an article to appear in the Arts & Leisure section in the July 15
> (Sunday) issue of the New York Times. On page 21, below the fold, is
> "City Folk Who Feel the Call of the Do-Si-Do", discussing Times Squares,
> Al'e'mo Squares and a Contra group called Country Dance New York.
>
> I thought it was the most accurate and thorough MWSD articles I have seen
> in the popular press. But they did use the phrase "more than 200 calls"
> for a number I count as 1171 (462 if you leave out C4). Perhaps that
> inaccuracy in a public piece is in our favor :-)
> --
> Larry Kilgallen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
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From squarekopp at gmx.de Sun Jul 15 17:27:43 2007
From: squarekopp at gmx.de (squarekopp at gmx.de)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:27:43 +0200
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Message-ID: <20070715212743.174820@gmx.net>
At Open Country Hannover, fifth Wednesdays are singalongs. On August 29, the Theme will be "Fiesta Mexicana". This of Course
includes FIESTA on Windsor 4808, with not quite the original calls, but near enough:
Four ladies chain across the rancho
Four ladies right hand star back home, dopaso
Turn partner left, right hand to Pancho
Turn partner left, allemande thar, the men back in
Slip the clutch now, left allemande, go,
Grand right and left around
And when you meet her, you dosado her,
And then you swing her 'round and 'round, and then ...
Circle to the left, it is fiesta time,
Roll away and swing the next one down the line
Keep that Senorita, promenade the square,
Take that lady home, and when you 're there
(Four ladies chain ...)
Newcomers like it; experienced dancers have a hard time. Why?
If you hidihoed instead of the dosado, what is the use of an ensuing swing? And how do you know it should be an 8 count
swing? Of course, after four beats you started to promenade, and now the caller fools you with a circle left!
I use to warn the dancers beforehand of these issues, but habits are hard to overcome.
Yours squarely,
Heiner Fischle
www.heinerfischle.de
who still uses his outdated records, once in a while
From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com Sun Jul 15 18:19:48 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:19:48 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square
dance article
In-Reply-To: <023401c7c723$684bcf50$0100a8c0@hpaed611b7ddd3>
References: <000a01c7c6ec$04a59350$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
<023401c7c723$684bcf50$0100a8c0@hpaed611b7ddd3>
Message-ID:
At 05:02 PM 7/15/2007, Jim Maczko wrote:
>The article below appeared in the July 15,2007 - New York Times - is
>a reasonably accurate portrayal of our Dance activities.
>
>I would encourage everyone to share this article - with appropriate
>credit to the New York Time - to all dancers. This could be a
>useful tool to add credibility to enticing other media to cover our activities.
The article is available on the NY Times website: Viewing the article
may require [free] registration. The link is here:
Ken
From cynde at twistercom.fi Mon Jul 16 03:29:58 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:29:58 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square
dancearticle
References: <000a01c7c6ec$04a59350$6c00a8c0@dave4200>
Message-ID: <000601c7c77b$1d7f1100$eeb4fb54@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
1171 is more than 200.
Can this article be read online somewhere?
Cynde
----- Original Message -----
From: "ljknews"
To: "This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD"
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square
dancearticle
> On another list, Daniel Jason of Times Squares gave us advance information
> about an article to appear in the Arts & Leisure section in the July 15
> (Sunday) issue of the New York Times. On page 21, below the fold, is
> "City Folk Who Feel the Call of the Do-Si-Do", discussing Times Squares,
> Al'e'mo Squares and a Contra group called Country Dance New York.
>
> I thought it was the most accurate and thorough MWSD articles I have seen
> in the popular press. But they did use the phrase "more than 200 calls"
> for a number I count as 1171 (462 if you leave out C4). Perhaps that
> inaccuracy in a public piece is in our favor :-)
> --
> Larry Kilgallen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
From Anniebplus at aol.com Mon Jul 16 10:31:38 2007
From: Anniebplus at aol.com (Anniebplus at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:31:38 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square
dancearticle
Message-ID:
Yes Cynde. Follow the link below.
_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/dance/15GOOD.html?pagewanted=1_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/dance/15GOOD.html?pagewanted=1)
Anne
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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From ljknews at mac.com Mon Jul 16 13:50:29 2007
From: ljknews at mac.com (ljknews)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:50:29 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban square
dancearticle
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
At 10:31 AM -0400 7/16/07, Anniebplus at aol.com wrote:
> Yes Cynde. Follow the link below.
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/dance/15GOOD.html?pagewanted=1
Shepard Wahnon found a link that does not require cookies, registration,
etc.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/dance/15GOOD.html?ex=1185249600&en=e4a2022af3005159&ei=5070&emc=eta1
--
Larry Kilgallen
From cynde at twistercom.fi Mon Jul 16 14:31:48 2007
From: cynde at twistercom.fi (Cynde Sadler)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:31:48 +0300
Subject: [Squaredancing] 15-Jul-2007 New York Times urban
squaredancearticle
References:
Message-ID: <001a01c7c7d7$9201dc40$eeb4fb54@cs2yf8n0kwym6c>
OK great. It IS a good article! I have saved it for future use.
Thanks
Cynde
:
>> Yes Cynde. Follow the link below.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/dance/15GOOD.html?pagewanted=1
>
>
> Shepard Wahnon found a link that does not require cookies, registration,
> etc.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/dance/15GOOD.html?ex=1185249600&en=e4a2022af3005159&ei=5070&emc=eta1
> --
> Larry Kilgallen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
>
From ppardee at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 17 12:29:53 2007
From: ppardee at frontiernet.net (ppardee at frontiernet.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:29:53 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
In-Reply-To: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
References: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
Message-ID: <469CB641.2320.28706A@ppardee.frontiernet.net>
Here are my answers. By the way, what is a 3R presentation?
1. Monthly
2.Own club participation
3. No
4. Yes to both
5. Some of each -- at one point this year, we went around the room at a
board meeting and asked people to shout out a theme for a particular
month.
It was fun, and we got new ideas that everyone loved when we
implemented
them.
6. Most of the time no. Occasionally, such as a t-shirt/sweatshirt night,
or
hat night, as well as Halloween, we do offer prizes. We ask a few of the
dancers whoa re not in costume to be the judges.
7. No. This is a club activity and should be decided by the board.
Eileen Okolowicz
President, Cloverleaf Squares, Rochester, NY
Vice-President, Single Square Dancers USA
On 14 Jul 2007 at 11:30, Eagle Caller wrote:
>
> Hi everyone:
>
> My wife and I are doing a 3R presentation at the State Mtg. and I
> wanted to get some different point of view from you. Below are some
> questions on Theme Dances. Would you please answer and send them back
> to us. If you are would please indicate at the bottom if you area
> caller or dancer so I can file it in the right pile.
>
> Ervin
>
> THEME DANCES:
>
> 1. How often should a club have a Theme Dance?
> Monthly
> Semi Monthly
> Other
>
> 2. How involved do you feel the dancers get?
> Own club participations
> Everyone to include visitors
> Other
>
> 3.Do you think it draws visitors?
>
> 4. Do the clubs include the caller/Cuer?
> Music
> Costume
>
> 5. What kinds of themes do you use?
> Annual
> Just for fun
>
> 6. Do the clubs offer prizes for best costume?
> Who is responsible for decision?
>
> 7. Should the Caller/Cuer assume some?
> Patriotic/Valentines/Christmas/Halloween/Irish?
>
> Thanks for your help
> Ervin Wyatt
> Montrose, Colorado
>
From eaglecaller at sisna.com Thu Jul 19 18:22:27 2007
From: eaglecaller at sisna.com (Eagle Caller)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:22:27 -0600
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
References: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
<469CB641.2320.28706A@ppardee.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c7ca53$4b3a5980$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
The 3R is Recruit, Retain and I'm not sure on the 3rd one.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "This list for discussing all aspect of MWSD"
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
> Here are my answers. By the way, what is a 3R presentation?
>
> 1. Monthly
> 2.Own club participation
> 3. No
> 4. Yes to both
> 5. Some of each -- at one point this year, we went around the room at a
> board meeting and asked people to shout out a theme for a particular
> month.
> It was fun, and we got new ideas that everyone loved when we
> implemented
> them.
> 6. Most of the time no. Occasionally, such as a t-shirt/sweatshirt night,
> or
> hat night, as well as Halloween, we do offer prizes. We ask a few of the
> dancers whoa re not in costume to be the judges.
> 7. No. This is a club activity and should be decided by the board.
>
> Eileen Okolowicz
> President, Cloverleaf Squares, Rochester, NY
> Vice-President, Single Square Dancers USA
>
> On 14 Jul 2007 at 11:30, Eagle Caller wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi everyone:
>>
>> My wife and I are doing a 3R presentation at the State Mtg. and I
>> wanted to get some different point of view from you. Below are some
>> questions on Theme Dances. Would you please answer and send them back
>> to us. If you are would please indicate at the bottom if you area
>> caller or dancer so I can file it in the right pile.
>>
>> Ervin
>>
>> THEME DANCES:
>>
>> 1. How often should a club have a Theme Dance?
>> Monthly
>> Semi Monthly
>> Other
>>
>> 2. How involved do you feel the dancers get?
>> Own club participations
>> Everyone to include visitors
>> Other
>>
>> 3.Do you think it draws visitors?
>>
>> 4. Do the clubs include the caller/Cuer?
>> Music
>> Costume
>>
>> 5. What kinds of themes do you use?
>> Annual
>> Just for fun
>>
>> 6. Do the clubs offer prizes for best costume?
>> Who is responsible for decision?
>>
>> 7. Should the Caller/Cuer assume some?
>> Patriotic/Valentines/Christmas/Halloween/Irish?
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>> Ervin Wyatt
>> Montrose, Colorado
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Squaredancing mailing list
> Squaredancing at rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/squaredancing_rbnsn.com
>
From NShukayr at aol.com Thu Jul 19 18:41:03 2007
From: NShukayr at aol.com (NShukayr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:41:03 EDT
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Message-ID:
> The 3R is Recruit, Retain and I'm not sure on the 3rd one.
Then it must not be "Remember".
Nasser "I also dunno what a 3R presentation is" Shukayr
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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From Glennwriter at comcast.net Thu Jul 19 22:50:09 2007
From: Glennwriter at comcast.net (Glennwriter at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:50:09 +0000
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Message-ID: <072020070250.11745.46A022E10006D2E000002DE122165579969D0A9B079D9902020A04B9@comcast.net>
Maybe it's "resuscitate."
-------------- Original message --------------
From: NShukayr at aol.com
> The 3R is Recruit, Retain and I'm not sure on the 3rd one.
Then it must not be "Remember".
Nasser "I also dunno what a 3R presentation is" Shukayr
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
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From: NShukayr at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:41:25 +0000
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From luv2sqdnce at aol.com Mon Jul 30 14:29:55 2007
From: luv2sqdnce at aol.com (luv2sqdnce at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:29:55 -0400
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
In-Reply-To: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
References: <002701c7c63c$9e2dfd60$ee01a8c0@MainDesktop>
Message-ID: <8C9A0EEC32F25A0-7E8-923@webmail-md09.sysops.aol.com>
I do not know what a 3R presentation is, but will be glad to help answer your questions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eagle Caller
To: squaredancing at rbnsn.com
Sent: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:30 am
Subject: [Squaredancing] Theme Dances
Hi everyone:
?
My wife and I are doing a 3R presentation at the State Mtg. and I wanted to get some different point of view from you.? Below are some questions on Theme Dances.? Would you please answer and send them back to us.? If you are would please indicate at the bottom if you are?a caller or dancer so I can file it in the right pile.
?
Ervin
?
THEME DANCES:
?
1.? How often should a club have a Theme Dance?
???? Monthly? *** (our club has at least 1 theme dance a month - its VERY fun)
???? Semi Monthly
???? Other
?
2.? How involved do you feel the dancers get?
???? Own club participations
???? Everyone to include visitors ****?
???? Other
?
3.??Do you think it draws visitors?
????? The?Theme dance always draws visitors, as well as other clubs.? It is very entertaining, fun, and helpful to meet other clubs in the area.
?
4.? Do the clubs include the caller/Cuer?
????Yes, we include the Caller/Cuer as part of the club, if that is what you mean.? I am not sure I understand the question.
???? Music
???? Costume
?
5.? What kinds of themes do you use?
???? Annual
???? Just for fun? ******???
?
6.? Do the clubs offer prizes for best costume?
???? Who is responsible for decision?
?????The club usually takes a group photo?of all the costumes
?
7.? Should the Caller/Cuer assume some?? Assume some what?? The phrase doesnt make sense..sorry.
???? Patriotic/Valentines/Christmas/Halloween/Irish?
I am a dancer.
?
Thanks for your help
Ervin Wyatt
Montrose, Colorado
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