[Info-vax] Open Source on OpenVMS - A Progress Report

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Sorry for top-posting... :-)

And sorry Bill for hijacking your "freeware" thread, but...

Now, this is just silly.

I see the "=A0" that Phillip complains about only in the
quoted text that *Phillip* sent in *his* reply. Not in the
reply sent by *Bill*. That displays just fine over here.

This tells more about the tools that *Phillip* uses
then anything else, I'd say. Bill and I are obviously
using tools (news-readers) that handles this just fine.

The only case when quoted printable is a problem for me, is
when someone "out there" is still trying to use some old
tools that doesn't handle this in a normal/standard way,
and thus forwarding the quoted characters as-is. Why not
simply stop using tools that have passed their "best-before"
dates decades ago ? That seems as a much simpler
"solution" to this silly "problem"...

Complaining about printed quotable is just silly in a
modern international world. There is absolutely nothing
saying that this newsgroup or any other group should be
only supporting characters that happens to be in the
*english* alphabet or that it must be 7-bit plain ASCII.

I *guess* that there are someones out there still trying
to use VMS based tools for this kind of stuff, that is
even more silly of course. This isn't the 70's, welcome
to the 21'th century...


Now, over to freeware talks... :-)






Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
> In article
> <f5b6cb43-4328-4b26-b5d8-fd662df8cbde at m11g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
> BillPedersen <pedersen at ccsscorp.com> writes: 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 3:08=A0am, hel... at astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
>> remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
> 
> Bill's full reply is below.
> 
> Let me kindly suggest, not just with respect to VMS freeware activities, 
> the following:
> 
>    o  Don't quote too much text
> 
>    o  Don't post quoted-printable stuff to a text-based newsgroup like 
>       comp.os.vms
> 
> Discussion is good, but it needs to be easy so that no time is wasted.  
> The points above make it easier and, of course, apply to all newsgroup 
> posts.  Also, though you didn't do so:
> 
>    o  Don't top-post
> 
> is also an essential rule.
> 
> With regard to the quoted-printable stuff: it might be that you always 
> see the text "correctly" because of some software conversion.  But other 
> folks might not.
> 
> Note that there is also no need to encode anything I wrote, since I used
> only 7-bit printable US-ASCII.  Why encode a space as "=A0", for
> example? 
> 
>>> In article
>>> <5fa0f25e-6f55-4f8a-ae61-3c3afab76... at 31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> BillPedersen <peder... at ccsscorp.com> writes:
>>>> Along these lines I have been involved in discussions on various
>>>> forums including: comp.os.vms, vms-sig-listserv, LinkedIn.com, my own
>>>> VMSblog as well as Twitter and Facebook. =A0
>>> Make sure that anyone interested in non-HP VMS software has to look in
>>> one, and only one, place. =A0That is the main issue. =A0Once that is solv=
>> ed,
>>> the others will follow.
>>>
>>> If no-one with more time, money, resources etc volunteers, I might
>>> consider volunteering to maintain a one-stop--shop website. =A0Of course,
>>> this makes sense only if (almost) everyone agrees to always have the
>>> most up-to-date, stable versions of the corresponding packages there.
>>>
>>>> The general concensus is
>>>> that there needs to be communication, centralized repositories,
>>>> coordination, continuity and critical mass. =A0These "5-Cs" are all
>>>> important to making the Open Source on OpenVMS Project succeed.
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>>> At present I can not say that any one of these issues is under
>>>> control.
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>>> =A0 =A0comp.os.vms newsgroup
>>>> =A0 =A0VMS-... at LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG
>>>> =A0 =A0LinkedIn.com OpenVMS Community Group and other DEC groups on the=
>>  site
>>>> =A0 =A0Facebook.com
>>>> =A0 =A0Twitter.com
>>>> =A0 =A0community-connect.org various groups and blogs on the HP Connect=
>>  web
>>>> site
>>>> =A0 =A0VMSblog my own Blog oriented toward my thoughts and evangelism f=
>> or
>>>> OpenVMS
>>>> =A0 =A0OpenVMS.org
>>>> =A0 =A0OpenVMSHobbyist.com
>>>> =A0 =A0VAXnotes on Eisner at the mail.encompasserve.org site
>>> Again, a one-stop shop is the main issue.
>>>
>>>> What has not happened? =A0We are still hampered by the need to
>>>> communicate in many different environments and styles. =A0Ah to have
>>>> some "super glue" to bind this environments together. =A0I have a bit o=
>> f
>>>> that started with an interface between my VMSblog and Twitter. =A0I hav=
>> e
>>>> also been using the "AddThis" Firefox addon to help with some of the
>>>> other areas but I still have not found the application that really
>>>> ties things together.
>>> I think this is the wrong approach. =A0ONE STOP. =A0Either a mailing list=
>>  or
>>> a web-based forum. =A0Now that they are archived and spam isn't a problem=
>> ,
>>> maybe even a newsgroup.
>>>
>>>> Source Forge seems like the logical place for much of this work. =A0Thi=
>> s
>>>> is especially true since the main line code trees of many Open Source
>>>> packages are already resident. =A0In discussions with folks in OpenVMS
>>>> Engineering it sounds like this is the way they are leaning. =A0They
>>>> already has a history there with GNV (although the code on Source
>>>> Forge has not been update since 30 July 2004...). =A0Other sites have
>>>> GNV includingftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/openvms/opensource/where version
>>>> V2.01.002.1 resides as well as atftp://encompasserve.org/gnv/where
>>>> John Malmberg has posted various fixes and updates of the work he has
>>>> contributed.
>>> Source Forge is not dedicated to VMS. =A0While that might be fine for
>>> development, I think we need a central repository for the latest stable
>>> versions of VMS software. =A0Some packages might have ongoing development
>>> at Source Forge or somewhere else. =A0Take the OSU web server, for
>>> example. =A0Great product. =A0I don't see Dave Jones moving it to Source
>>> Forge, though, nor do I think that that would be a good idea.
>>>
>>> My strategy used to be: check with Hunter Goatley's server, then check
>>> OSU, LYNX and TEXMF. =A0But there are too many exceptions now. =A0We need=
>>  a
>>> one-stop shop.
>>>
>>>> This is one of the difficult ones. If I could wave a magic wand to
>>>> facilitate this I would. =A0I suspect this will take continued effort
>>>> and management. =A0It will also take the active particpation of
>>>> application authors and evangelists to make sure their offerings are
>>>> well represented and supported.
>>> I think a coordinator could be found if a) all involved agree on the
>>> goals and b) the coordinator himself also agrees.
>> Thanks Phillip.  I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
>>
>> Bill.