[Info-vax] Request description of UFS for VMS person

[AEF]

On Apr 30, 1:49 pm, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> In article <85729977-e3b7-478b-ab6f-bc0cf32b9... at d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 30, 8:46 am, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> >> In article <36821cb7-714a-4749-9deb-b772eddac... at b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
> >>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >> > On Apr 29, 7:17 pm, "Bob Eager" <rd... at spamcop.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:43:42 UTC, AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> > The primary one I can think of is that everything on the volume really
> >> >> > *is* a file. Everything in the volume is "transparent". In Unix, at
> >> >> > least the ones I have access to I don't know how to dump the super
> >> >> > block or inodes. And on one of them I can't even dump a directory!
>
> >> >> > So can you or anyone else tell us more of the advantages? And on the
> >> >> > Unix side if there is a way to read the super block and inodes? So
> >> >> > much for "everything is a file in Unix".
>
> >> >> Simple.  The whole *disk* is a file. Open it, and you can seek to any
> >> >> block on the disk, the read/write it.
> >> > Is the entire system a file, too? Just open it up and you can see
> >> > everything! :-)
>
> >> WHat do you mean by the entire system?
>
> > It comes out of the box.
>
> >> > Re the disk:
> >> > What do I do?
> >> > $ cat <name of disk>
>
> >> If you wish and have the needed permissions.
>
> > I can't even cat a directory!
>
> And as a regular user I can't read/modify the passwords on VMS.  Is that
> a shortcoming?

Uh, that's because the passwords aren't there; their HASHES are.

>
>
>
> >> > $ od <name of disk>
>
> >> If you wish and have the needed permissions.
>
> > Not on my Solaris 10 box.
>
> Don't confuse your inability to do things with shortcomings in
> the system.  There are ways to access this information.  Using
> the wrong tool isn't a shortcoming in the system, either. I
> can't cut an Ibeam with a butterknife but that is neither a
> shrotcoming in the Ibeam or the butterknife.

Then don't say that everything is just butter. An Ibeam is not butter.
I wouldn't use a butterknife on an Ibeam. And I wouldn't need to write
my own utility to find and read a file.

>
>
>
>
>
> >> > And od can't even read a directory on some systems!
>
> >> That is a special case apparently added at some point.  Probably to
> >> protect the user from him/herself once Unix stopped bing the doamin
> >> of people who actually knew what they were doing.
>
> >> triangle# disklabel ad0s1
> >> # /dev/ad0s1:
> >> 8 partitions:
> >> #        size   offset    fstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
> >>   a: 10240000        0    4.2BSD     2048 16384 28552
> >>   b:  4096000 10240000      swap
> >>   c: 156296322        0    unused        0     0         # "raw" part, don't edit
> >>   d: 10240000 14336000    4.2BSD     2048 16384 28552
> >>   e: 10240000 24576000    4.2BSD     2048 16384 28552
> >>   f: 121480322 34816000    4.2BSD     2048 16384 28552
>
> >> triangle# cat /dev/ad0s1c|od -c|more
> >> 0000000  353   <  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0 002  \0  \0  \0
> >> 0000020   \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0 022  \0 002  \0  \0  \0  \0  \0
> >> 0000040   \0  \0  \0  \0  \0 026 037   f   j  \0   Q   P 006   S   1 300
> >> 0000060  210 360   P   j 020 211 345 350 307  \0 215   f 020 313 374   1
> >> 0000100  311 216 301 216 331 216 321 274  \0   | 211 346 277  \0  \a 376
> >> 0000120  305 363 245 276 356   } 200 372 200   r   , 266 001 350   g  \0
> >> 0000140  271 001  \0 276 252 216 266 001 200   | 004 245   u  \a 343 031
> >> 0000160  ......................
>
> > Still waiting for how to find, much less read, a super block or inode.
> > Write a uitiliy? Please, I'm not writing no stinkin' utility! :-) I
>
> Then why are we wasting our time?  An OS that doesn't provide capabilities
> that only you want is hardly deficient.  My VAX running VSM won't wash and
> wax my car.  neither will the Alpha.  And, I'll bet an upgrade to Itanium
> still won't.  What a piece of crap VMS is.  Get the picture.  I thought
> you were seriously looking for information but you are beginning to look
> like another troll.

Now saying "What a piece of crap VMS is". That's being a troll!

I'm just trying to find out how everything in Unix is "just a file".
Everything you've said proves the opposite.

>
> I'm done.
>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> billg... at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  

AEF