[Info-vax] "Shanghai Stock Exchange" and OpenVMS

Wed Jan 28 19:05:13 EST 2009

In article <39090d29-e4da-40e3-9e97-b51334d4a49c at w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
AEF  <spamsink2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 28, 10:15 am, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> In article
><bd8d2755-bb5f-4705-af3a-3af60797b... at r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 27, 9:56 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber... at comcast.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> AEF wrote:
>> >> > On Jan 27, 12:13 pm, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> >> >> In article
><19dfe02a-d7a7-4d0c-be27-1c4ba069a... at f18g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>> >> >>> On Jan 27, 10:14 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber... at comcast.net>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>> AEF wrote:
>> >> >>>>> On Jan 26, 10:16 am, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> In article
><342d9c74-0b26-4c4b-9dd2-527d08958... at o36g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >>>>>>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>> On Jan 24, 3:59 pm, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>> In article
><5288d49e-e43a-463e-a02c-bffcf1393... at o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 23, 9:38 am, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> In article
><05b548fd-8d1f-48c9-80c4-777bf5f6c... at q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 8:41 pm, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill
>Gunshannon) wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> In article
><abd32391-46d6-49e4-aa1c-58d74dcc7... at p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>         AEF <spamsink2... at yahoo.com> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 3:31 pm, billg... at cs.uofs.edu (Bill
>Gunshannon) wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <CKqdnel_5rWYS-XUnZ2dnUVZ_v_in... at giganews.com>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>         "Richard B. Gilbert"
><rgilber... at comcast.net> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <0005d0dd$0$2088$c3e8... at news.astraweb.com>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        JF Mezei <jfmezei.spam... at vaxination.ca> writes:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> [...]
>> >> >>> [...]
>> >> >>>>>>> [...]
>> >> >>>>>>>> So complain to MS.  I think the fact that the online VMS
>docs don't
>> >> >>>>>>>> include an equivalent to the Unix apropos command as a serious
>> >> >>>>>>>> shortcoming.  We all have our pet peeves.  :-)
>> >> >>>>>>> Well, there is Help Hints, and I can't remember the last
>time I was on
>> >> >>>>>>> a Unix system that actually _had_ apropos.
>> >> >>>>>> Huh?  I can't remember one that didn't.  Oh wait, anything
>runnng real
>> >> >>>>>> AT&T SYS V.  They didn't provide any manuals. expecting you
>to buy paper
>> >> >>>>>> one's from Prentice-Hall.  No man pages, no apropos. And we
>all know how
>> >> >>>>>> well AT&T did in the IT business.  :-)
>> >> >>>>>> So, what current version of Unix are you using that does not
>support the
>> >> >>>>>> apropos or "man -k" command?  (Hint: they are the exact same
>command!)
>> >> >>>>> bash-3.00$ apropos
>> >> >>>>> apropos what?
>> >> >>>>> bash-3.00$ aspopos copy
>> >> >>>>> bash: aspopos: command not found
>> >> >>>>> bash-3.00$ man -k
>> >> >>>>> usage:  man [-] [-adFlrt] [-M path] [-T macro-package ] [ -s
>section ]
>> >> >>>>> name ...
>> >> >>>>>         man [-M path] -k keyword ...
>> >> >>>>>         man [-M path] -f file ...
>> >> >>>>> bash-3.00$ man -k copy
>> >> >>>>> /usr/share/man/windex: No such file or directory
>> >> >>>>> bash-3.00$
>> >> >>> I misspelled apropos. It was late. (\&-){
>> >> >>>                                      \ /
>> >> >>>                                       V
>> >> >>> Here's the corrected version:
>> >> >>> bash-3.00$ man -k copy
>> >> >>> /usr/share/man/windex: No such file or directory
>> >> >>> bash-3.00$ apropos copy
>> >> >>> /usr/share/man/windex: No such file or directory
>> >> >>> bash-3.00$ man -k
>> >> >>> usage:  man [-] [-adFlrt] [-M path] [-T macro-package ] [ -s section ]
>> >> >>> name ...
>> >> >>>         man [-M path] -k keyword ...
>> >> >>>         man [-M path] -f file ...
>> >> >>> bash-3.00$ apropos
>> >> >>> apropos what?
>> >> >>> bash-3.00$
>> >> >> My suggestion.  Stop using Unix.
>>
>> >> > Now how is that going to show me how to use the apropos command?
>>
>> >> >>>>> OK, how do I learn how to copy? How do I find out the version? I know
>> >> >>>>> it's Solaris something, probably 8.
>> >> >>>> cp
>>
>> >> > Yes, I know that's the copy command. I was wondering how you use the
>> >> > apropos command. I thought you were supposed to give it a search word
>> >> > like copy and it would come up with the man page for cp or something
>> >> > like that. I guess I'll have to hunt down the answer on the Web. I
>> >> > even tried man apropos and it says:
>>
>> >> > NAME
>> >> >      apropos - locate commands by keyword lookup
>>
>> >> > SYNOPSIS
>> >> >      apropos keyword...
>>
>> >> > DESCRIPTION
>> >> >      The apropos utility displays  the  man  page  name,  section
>> >> >      number, and a short description for each man page whose NAME
>> >> >      line contains keyword.  This information is contained in the
>>
>> >> > Okay, copy is in the "NAME line" for cp, yet apropos copy does not
>> >> > give the man page for cp or even mention cp:
>>
>> >> > NAME
>> >> >      cp - copy files
>>
>> >> > Okay, the keyword 'copy' is in the NAME line. But:
>>
>> >> > bash-3.00$ man -k copy files
>>
>> >> Try man -k "copy files"
>>
>> >> It's all in knowing how!
>> > Except when it doesn't work:
>> > bash-3.00$ man -k "copy files"
>> > /usr/share/man/windex: No such file or directory
>> > bash-3.00$
>>
>> How many people need to tell you that the apropos db is usually not built by
>> default to allow for the addition of local commands.  It took all of about
>> 15 seconds to find the command for Solaris to build that using Google.
>
>Two. :=)
>
>I'm unaware of how I can go on the Net with this box, so that's the
>same as your VT420 remark. :-P
>
>>
>> Login as root and type "catman -w -M"  and then try it again.  Someone
>> else already posted this but I guess you would rather complain than fix
>> it.
>
>I don't have root.
>
>(Got root? :-)
>>
>> > And even if it did work, do I really need to enter that exact phrase
>> > "copy files"? Doesn't that kind of defeat the entire purpose of the
>> > command?
>>
>> No, you can just enter "man 0k copy" or "apropos copy".  just be prepared
>> for more than you bargained for because you can certainly copy a lot more
>> than just files on Unix.
>
>Well, it doesn't work at all until someone sets it up. If apropos is
>so good, why didn't someone set it up? Why isn't it set up out of the
>box? VMS HELP is, I believe.
>>

The reason is historical.  Some Unix boxes don't have the disk space for the 
database index.  Some NFS mount their man pages from another machine and don't
need the database on a local disk. 

The answer is it requires a someone with the professional knowledge to 
correctly install it.  There are already pre-installed cron jobs to maintain
both the catman man pages and the kwic (key-words-in-context) database
of Unix man pages.  They just need to be uncommented on most machines.

Some sites didn't have the nroff/troff needed to process man pages and used prebuilt catman pages.

The files section of the catman man page on this linux box:

FILES
       /etc/manpath.config
              man-db configuration file.

       /usr/man/index.(bt|db|dir|pag)
              A traditional global index database cache.

       /var/catman/index.(bt|db|dir|pag)
              An alternate or FSSTND compliant global index database cache.

The file /etc/cron.daily/man-db is the cron job to  regenerate man database.

BSD used a mkwhatis (or was it makewhatis)...

When you do a man -k whatis you also come across.

SEE ALSO
       apropos(1), man(1), mandb(8).

>> And, incase tou haven't figured it out yet, yes, "apropos" is an alias
>> for "man -k".
>
>Yes, but I find it strange that you don't see that in some
>circumstances (don't have time right now to produce an example).
>
>>
>> > Evidently, apropos just isn't set up correctly on this system. Maybe
>> > if it were set up correctly it would be as Good as Bill Gunshannon
>> > says.
>>
>> You know, I have less trouble with freshman.
>
>Why thank you, doctor.
>
>>
>> bill
>>
>> --
>> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
>> billg... at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
>> University of Scranton   |
>> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  - Hide
>quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>AEF

Some of us made a living teaching Unix/Linux Systems Administration until
the powers that be decided to let more and more people "just figure it out"
to save costs.

Also, many of the training costs train -- they teach what to do but they don't
take the time to supply the "Why do we do it that way?" answers which in 
Unix's case are often historical and hysterical.

I had one 25 year sysadmin/developer tell me in 94 or so that he would kill
-9 cron and restart it after editing the crontab file for some user.

Kind of very v7 old school.  I pointed him to the crontab -e command and told
him AT&T reworked that one in either SysIII (IIRC) or SysV.

That was probably the only new thing he learned in my class but he seemed
happy to get that.

Bill
-- 
-- 
Digital had it then.  Don't you wish you could buy it now!
              pechter-at-pechter.dyndns.org