[Info-vax] OT: Arun Kishan

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 14-01-2010 07:57, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> In article<4b4e8a0f$0$270$14726298 at news.sunsite.dk>,
> 	Arne Vajhøj<arne at vajhoej.dk>  writes:
>> On 12-01-2010 10:38, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>> In article<7r3ecgFii4U1 at mid.individual.net>, billg999 at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>>>> In article<4b4bee9d$0$272$14726298 at news.sunsite.dk>,
>>>> 	Arne Vajhøj<arne at vajhoej.dk>   writes:
>>>>> On 11-01-2010 07:47, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>>>> Support person = ceil (1/(1 WEENDOZE user)) * (WEENDOZE boxes + fudge)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fudge is usually for the support of the WEENDOZE server to which these
>>>>>> single user WEENDOZE boxes connect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like buying a car with a full time mechanic.
>>>>>
>>>>> But for some reasons the CIO's have not figured that out yet !?!?
>>>>
>>>> So, when are we finally going to put this myth to rest (like the Cutler
>>>> is god myth)?
>>>>
>>>> This place has always had a nearly one-to-one sysadminr-to-VMS
>>>> ratio while I have repeatedly stated that I do more than a dozen
>>>> Unix servers almost a dozen Windows servers and lots of clients
>>>> (including student labs) and, at one time, several VMS systems
>>>> and even some PDP-11's running vasrious OSes, with a one man shop.
>>>>
>>>> And, lets look at other sites I know.  When i was mobed I visited
>>>> sites with thousands of users scattered over thousands of square
>>>> miles being supported by 2-3 sys admins.  I just interviewed with
>>>> a place that has over 20 Windows servers and around 10,000 users
>>>> with a total support staff of 6 people for not only the Windows
>>>> stuff, but for everything including the network.
>>>>
>>>> It really is time to get a grip on reality or a lot of former VMS
>>>> workers are going to need to learn how to say "Do you want fries
>>>> with that?" for their next job.
>>>
>>> It's not a myth, Bill...  You've been around and doing this since the
>>> early days of the systems you've mentioned.  Look in the corporation's
>>> IT department today.  Filled with kids with 6 month certificates and
>>> their only claim to fame is that they're able to beat some video game
>>> without cheat codes.
>>
>> The average would have a college degree in CSc.
>
> Which, of course, means nothing.  I woukld take 4 years of real
> experience over a 4 year degree any day. (and, remember, I work
> with these people on both sides of the degree every day!)  The
> only employer I know of who still sees this is the government
> who, in most cases, will accept experience in lieu of education
> but usualy states plainly in their vacancy announcements that
> 'education can not be used as a substitute for required experience."

But it is a lot easier for people with an education to get experience
than for people with experience to get an education.

>>> The son-in-law has been working over time for the past several days
>>> to bring a new WEENDOZE server on-line where he works.  Sadly, he's
>>> very much a WEENDOZE zealot.  Even with 10 year of experience, he's
>>> been fighting this system.  So, perhaps you should talk with him and
>>> find out what apps they are trying to run.  I'll bet they're not any
>>> you've encountered.  It's not always an OS (or in this case WEENDOZE)
>>> only issue but one of the OS coupled with the apps runnin on it.
>>
>> There must be hundreds of thousands of apps for Windows. That is a
>> jungle.
>
> Not sure I would say "hundreds of thousands" but then, it depends
> on your definition of "app".  Do you count things like "Frogger"? :-)

Almost everything is available for Windows.

During the beta test of Windows 7 MS got data about
users running 800000 different software and version
combinations.

>> But in general it is good for an OS to have many apps.
>
> A quick count of the Ports Tree I FreeBSD returns over 24,000.  And
> that would be just the ones that have been tested and known to compile
> and work under FreeBSD.

The *BSD's has a nice app base. But they are lacking in the
big commercial apps.

>>>   A large multi-national chocolate confection company where I did some
>>> time a few years ago had one VMS system manager at each of its sites
>>> and these sites had several VMS system.  They had server people that
>>> were in charge on the one IBM mainframe and many more people support-
>>> ing their WEENDOZE environment than I think there were users thereof.
>>>
>>> Another site, a huge auto rental/leasing company, has co-located VMS
>>> boxes.  One system manager that knowns enough to great accounts with
>>> a DCL script (I wager he'd be lost completely in UAF) and how to re-
>>> boot and change the tapes in the backup system.  These systems just
>>> run along.  Their employees all use WEENDOZE boxes to access the VMS
>>> server (database) for leasing info, payment and other tasks associated
>>> with the business.  About 100 people in the main office and countless
>>> others accessing remotely.  I've met at least 2 dozen people that are
>>> on staff for the WEENDOZE support.  The linux web server they run is
>>> managed by some outsource.
>>
>> Most servers apps are easy to maintain.
>>
>> The problem is client apps and end users. They can use an infinite
>> amount of support.
>
> Not if the company takes the practical route of not letting users
> install anything on their company owned PC.  Baselining can solve
> a world of problems.  And in addition to the fact that the Windows
> environment can be secured within itself, there are also products,
> like Mcaffee's Host Based Security System, available that, while
> seen by some as rather draconian, can lock them down even more while
> still allowing business to be transacted.

You can do a lot of things with Windows.

But most sites don't.

Arne