[Info-vax] [OT] Bare metal definition, was: Re: VMS port to x86

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2012-03-27 18.12, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Johnny Billquist wrote 2012-03-27 17:23:
>> On 2012-03-27 16.23, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>>> Bob Koehler wrote 2012-03-27 17:49:
>>>> In article<jkqkjv$p1i$1 at news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik
>>>> Soderholm<jan-erik.soderholm at telia.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> But Linux runs on "bare metal". And if that part is builtin in
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> the developer calles "the product", then what ? Doesn't "the product"
>>>>> then
>>>>> run on "bare metal"? Yes, one component of "the product" is some parts
>>>>> usualy called "Linux", but so what ? Why should the customer/user
>>>>> care ?
>>>>
>>>> Because the Linux kernel can't handle some of the hard real-time
>>>> applications that the user might have.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But that is a completly different question.
>>> It has nothing to do with the "bare metall" discussion.
>>
>> I think it has a lot of relevance if your "bare metal" actually
>> introduce a
>> non-deterministic middle layer to your emulation.
>>
>> The bare metal actually, by definition, do not have this property. So I
>> would expect something that runs on the bare metal to retain that
>> property,
>> which to some is a very much wanted property. By falsely claiming that a
>> product is running on the bare metal, when it actually is running on
>> top of
>> an operating system, they are in fact doing false marketing, and
>> implicitly
>> claim properties of their system which they can not back up.
>>
>> "Bare metal" is not just a word... It *means* something.
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>
> Windows runs on "bare metal", still many would claim that Windows
> is non-deterministic.

*Exactly* Which is why you would not want a product like a machine 
emulator running on Windows (or Linux, which have the same problem), and 
then have someone claim it runs on bare metal, which is not 
non-deterministic.

> I could easily write some simple code that runs on "bare metal"
> that would be (by design!) *very* non-deterministic... :-)

Right. Not a problem at all. It is the opposite which is the problem, 
and which you cannot do. And which is why running the emulator on top of 
an OS instead of on the bare metal is a bad idea, for some.

> No, the only thing rellevant here is if you need to add any software
> yourself (such as an "OS") before installing the actual "product".

No. You are even missing your own point.

	Johnny