[Info-vax] Need help in REVOKE

[David Froble]

Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> On 2013-02-15 01:38:26 +0000, Richard B. Gilbert said:
> 
>> On 2/13/2013 9:49 AM, Bob Koehler wrote:
>>> In article <790264aa-2426-46fb-a4fa-207257170309 at googlegroups.com>, 
>>> adityagtm4 at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Can you please tell me all these thing step-by-step... I am newbie 
>>>> to OpenVMS.
>>>> I hope you'll help me out.
>>>
>>> This is sad.  People who don't know even this much about VMS should
>>> not have enough access to be removing rights identifiers.
>>>

In this case you may have a valid point, but in general, just because a 
person doesn't use a particular capability and therefore is not an 
expert on managing that particular capability doesn't mean that person 
isn't in general a capable VMS System Manager.

Using myself as an example, I know about a VMS cluster in general, but 
I've never had the requirements for a cluster, have never set up a 
cluster, and would have questions and a bit of reading to do if I ever 
needed to set up a cluster.

Don't use rights identifiers either.

>> And if there is no one else who knows how, somebody made a BIG mistake!
> 
> Somebody always makes a big mistake.  That's fairly typical and 
> variously inevitable — whether a large or small organization — as a 
> consequence of sparce staffing and layoffs.
> 
>> VMS is a little too verbose for some people.
> 
> True.

Impossible !!!

>> For new, or infrequent, users, it's very friendly.
> 
> If you're stuck in the CLI era of server management and comparing with 
> other CLI management, maybe.
> 
> Even if you're familiar with CLI-level management on other platforms, 
> OpenVMS is still cryptic.

Isn't anything you're not familiar with ??

> If you're accustomed to managing more modern servers, then the term 
> "friendly" is not what I'd use to describe OpenVMS system management.

Can you describe "more modern servers" and what makes them so ??

>> HELP HELP will get you some tutorial information for the HELP command.
> 
> That'll be a struggle for someone with no grounding in the terms and 
> conceits, err, concepts of OpenVMS.    The HELP was classically 
> reminders, and not lessons.

As intended.  Nothing can compete with well written manuals.

> Introductory materials for new OpenVMS folks:
> 
> ...User's Manual:
>  <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/OVMS_731_USERS.PDF> 
> 
> 
> ...System Managers' Manuals:
>  <ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/openvms/doc/AA-PV5MJ-TK.PDF>
>  <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5nj-tk/aa-pv5nj-tk.PDF>
> 
> ...Programming Concepts:
>  <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/5841/aa-rnshd-te.PDF>
>  <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5841/aa-pv67h-tk.PDF>
> 
> ...And for this case, the Guide to System Security manual:
>  <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/84FINAL/ba554_90015/ba554_90015.pdf>
> 
> More reading than most folks want to do, however.  Which is why the 
> (lack of) integrated system management interfaces and tools is a problem 
> for OpenVMS.
> 

What folks want to read is meaningless.  Only what's required to perform 
the job is meaningful.  Do you have any examples of these so called 
"integrated system management interfaces and tools" that would be easily 
used by someone totally unfamiliar with their operation, and without 
manuals to help them learn the interfaces and tools?  I must be looking 
in the wrong place, because any time I took a look at non-VMS 
environments I got rather lost.