[Info-vax] systemd boycott call was: Re: Why so much Unix envy?

[William Pechter]

In article <c7dhuaFtk7bU1 at mid.individual.net>,
Bill Gunshannon <billg999 at cs.uofs.edu> wrote:
>In article <11d4f87f-f52d-4ba8-99d8-f4e793c4aadd at googlegroups.com>,
>	wendellxe at yahoo.com writes:
>> On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 10:04:58 PM UTC-7, terry+go... at tmk.com wrote:
>>> > haven't liked the un-Unix-like evolution of Linux for some time, but 
>>> > moving away from it is generally unfeasible.
>>>
>>> I've been using FreeBSD for years and years...
>>> FreeBSD supports a reasonably large set of hardware...
>
Yup... but they're pickier than Linux.
Linux supports raid on my Lenovo D30 Marvell chipset.  So... I can dual
boot Windows server 2012 with Linux... FreeBSD supports it on Intel
chipset stuff but not on the Intel Xeon board with the Marvell chipset.

I've used FreeBSD from 1.0 up through 4.11 or so but my hardware was
better supported under Linux unless it was server grade stuff.

I also found more commercial support on Linux.


>We have been using BSD (mostly FreeBSD) here since SunOS was killed and
>Solaris was a piece of crap.
>

Ah yes the SunOS4.1.x to Solaris 2.3 transition.  Solaris 2.6 and up was
ok until they priced it out of my market.

>> I agree with you. To avoid confusion, I should specify server vs.
>workstation use. If I were only concerned with servers, I might just
>switch to *BSD. My comment regarding Linux was motivated by its
>prevalence in technical computing, where you have a much wider variety
>of hardware and a vast, Windows/Linux tool ecosystem.
>
>While we periodically put up Linux Systems for short term use for special
>projects, we are mostly Windows and FreeBSD.  And I have used FreeBSD on
>the desktop and it works as well as Linux and runs on most of the various
>laptops I have floating around.  At the moment, all of my non-Windows
>laptops have different versions of Linux Desktop on them but that was for
>aparticular demonstration project and they are not used in production.
>
>All that FreeBSD really lacks from being a viable desktop is a decent
>install.  :-(

Hell.  I'll live with the FreeBSD installer, but I'd love to see
commercially supported Codeweavers Crossover Office on BSD.
>
>> I'm now even seeing systemd supporters saying that if you don't like
>it, you should just leave Linux and go to FreeBSD. But if your shop has
>a large knowledge investment in Linux, there is a natural reluctance to
>start supporting an additional OS.
>
>But we are talking about Linux making a major change that would invalidate
>a lot of that knowledge while it would still be very close to the BSD way
>of doing things.
>
>> There is another factor to consider regarding FreeBSD, which is the
>nature of the community. Why was FreeBSD with its cohesive development
>model and (initial) technical superiority so dramatically trounced by
>Linux in industrial acceptance? I believe a major factor was a pervasive
>"we are so special" attitude. (Not that Linux fanboys aren't bad.)
>Really, I can't hang out in a FreeBSD forum for long before getting the
>urge to distance myself. So, partly for the attitude and partly for the
>clean design, I'd rather go with OpenBSD. (Yeah, a bit of attitude
>there, too.)

Didn't see much of that -- and most of my FreeBSD stuff was the mailing
lists rather than forums.

The only thing that made me dump FreeBSD was hardware support choices.

>
>I have always found the lack of BSD dominance to be caused by something
>everyone here is already very familiar with.  Lack of marketing.  Ever
>see a BSD magazine?  Ever see a BSD conference? (Well, we used to have
>USENIX but that was never specifically BSD and I expect what is left of
>it is mostly Linux today.)


As far as BSD Magazine -- I subscribe.

http://bsdmag.org/

>
>> Although comp.os.vms has its curmudgeons, it is relatively well
>focused on just getting work done and avoiding that sort of egotism.
>
>You're joking, right?
>
>bill
>
>-- 
>Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
>billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
>University of Scranton   |
>Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

Curmudgeons.  I resemble that remark.


Bill
-- 
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