[Info-vax] 1 year.

[David Froble]

IanD wrote:

> Rather than do a point by point response...
> 
> Basically the organisation likes VMS from a stability point of view

If that is the case, then if they want to make a good decision, they 
will look for a way to stay on VMS.  If they are not going to attempt to 
make good decisions, ....

> The application has not been touched in over 10 years and there are
> issues around the source code but I am not at liberty to say what
> exactly or to make further references to the customer base in case
> someone data matches certain things and identifies more information
> than I want to reveal :-)

Without details, suggestions are not very likely ....

But in general, if application sources are not available, then someone 
has made a bad decision.  At a minimum, if an application is purchased, 
some sort of escrow should have been set up.  I guess it's way too late 
to talk the barn door if the horses are miles away.

> Then you have the diminishing skills of the folk who are meant to
> look after the application but being VMS adverse, this too is a
> loosing downward spiral

This I do not buy.  For example, my son works at a nuclear power 
station.  They trained him for what he must know, they pay him a decent 
salary, and they have a reactor operator.  Application design and 
programming is no different, other than a person needs to have an 
apptitude for the work.  If you want VMS capable people, hire them, 
train them, pay them, and you have what you need.

> If the code could be lifted and put on an Itanium without the need to
> recompile, the business would have opted for that long ago - hence
> why I asked somewhere else about what exactly does a dynamic static
> translator perform - can it solve this issue for us going ahead?

This sounds like if the application is still required, then it's going 
to get re-written, regardless of the platform.  If they like VMS, then 
why not re-write for VMS?  Probably less effort than any other option.

> The customer base was once the ants pants as far as the particular
> industry was concerned but times have changed, they represent a drag
> on profits now and what they were initially required to do in terms
> of rapid expansion is no longer required, so they are not a focus
> anymore hence why the application has languished for so many years
> 
> So if I have been terse with my answers, it is with reason in that I
> do not want the industry identified nor do I wish to disclose too
> much for concern that the organisation may possibly suffer customer
> concern if data matching can link the various parts together etc

Well, you've been successful, none of the above means a thing to me.

> The alpha is doing the job fine, the problem is the hardware is old,
> going out of support and the application is no longer supported and
> the source code is, err, well, in a 'special' category of it's own

Sounds like a good fit for an Alpha emulator.

> Yes, I have spoken with people on the business side to let them know
> there at least is now a pathway forward as far as VMS is concerned
> but the above problems are driving their decision to get off VMS

And getting off VMS is going to solve their problem(s) in what way? 
This is what I don't understand.  At least with say an Alpha emulator, 
you can continue to run the apps.  If there is going to be a re-write, 
why is VMS so much worse than any other option?  I say it would be the 
best option.

> Let's just say that a certain organisation, who makes it profit on
> body count based in a certain country where IT wages are cheap and
> quality is sometimes lacking, want a linux system because that way
> they can rid themselves of the expensive VMS skilled folk and look
> after whatever new system comes in with the same resource base they
> currently have, i.e. linux folk. They do not care if this new system
> match is not the best for their customer nor if the new system will
> perform any better or be less stable.

Well in that case, tell me what the business is, so I can avoid it.

> It has now got to the stage where the application folk are looking
> like shall we say, fools in lots of regards as their lack of VMS
> understanding see's things breaking and falling over with the blame
> being put back on 'an old system and an old application'. Thus I am
> fighting fires on different fronts, so to speak, including fire
> coming from my own camp!
> 
> I was thinking of looking at ways to extract the rdb queries by
> putting debug flags on but this is only part of the equation to
> working out the application functionality internally. The application
> itself was developed with corba and my skills in that area are next
> to none
> 
> Can anyone help provide guidance on how / who, to contact so that one
> can 'function rip' an application that was developed with corba / c++
> I believe many years ago and work out a way to develop a new solution
> on VMS when the source code is, shall we say, somewhat hard to
> acquire?
> 
> Solve this issue and VMS will remain in the workplace, otherwise it's
> pending doom is already here :-(