[Info-vax] 64 bit DCL ?

[VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG]

In article <92930a0e-9e71-4715-9528-85f74a2094af at googlegroups.com>, dodecahedron99 at gmail.com writes:
>Sorry if this goes against the grain of those that love DCL but wouldn't it=
> be better to let DCL die a natural death?
>
>If it's time and effort being expended on 'OpenVMS Next', then I don't beli=
>eve it's DCL that should get the attention
>
>As much as DCL has brought OpenVMS along, it's time has well and truly come=
> and gone as a modern glue script for OpenVMS
>
>My vote would be to spend the time and effort into Python.=20
>
>A lot of the work has already been done getting python running on OpenVMS a=
>nd I believe getting Python 3 onto OpenVMS is also underway. Having somethi=
>ng like Python 3 as it's native CLI I think would have spin-offs longer las=
>ting than investing more time into DCL
>
>Powershell looks nice as it has built-in's for direct web output creation b=
>ut Python can do similar through libraries and Python over time keeps incor=
>porating more and more useful aspects into it's core
>
>Here's a rough comparison between the uptake of Python versus Powershell. Y=
>es, I hate these types of comparisons as well but it gives an brief snapsho=
>t
>
>http://www.techwars.io/fight/python/powershell/
>
>My fear of introducing 64bit DCL into the current DCL image is:
>
>1. It will break something
>2. It is time and effort into a scripting language that is dead and too lim=
>ited to take OpenVMS into the future, IMO
>3. It will not help promote the move on from DCL, just prolong it's entrenc=
>hment in OpenVMS
>
>I'd rather see a clean cut so as to leave existing DCL as it is and invest =
>time and effort into a universally accepted language that would also help t=
>he port of further code onto OpenVMS going forward
>
>Then there is the topic of fostering rapid development on OpenVMS. Librarie=
>s libraries libraries are needed. At present there is simply too much old o=
>utdated libraries around and very little from an OO nature, even the C++ im=
>plementation left a lot to be desired. If Python is supported fully and dev=
>eloped on OpenVMS natively, then porting other libraries should be easier
>
>I know it will be a lot of work to hammer out a full set of Python librarie=
>s for OpenVMS that could replace and go beyond DCL but IMO we don't want to=
> just replace DCL, we want to better it and have a native language that can=
> take us forward.=20
>Yes, Python lacks on the web side but I think it has more going for it than=
> Powershell, as good as Powershell is. Python is OO based as well (PowerShe=
>ll is too but not as fully implemented).=20
>
>Having an OO based language as it's CLI should overtime help foster more ro=
>bust scripts and more importantly, more script re-use and could foster the =
>use of Python modules specific to OpenVMS. Imagine OpenVMS being filled wit=
>h libraries that were not just examples to be cut and paste into your scrip=
>ts but actual callable routines that were part of the OS itself that could =
>be simply called :-). This is what gave lexicals their edge IMO, simple to =
>use and call and could be called straight from the CLI. They were good enou=
>gh for most things and that's the key
>
>Scripting languages have become prominent because they are now good enough,=
> same as why Linux and it's derivatives are seen as good enough when compar=
>ed to OpenVMS. We need to not just play catchup with bringing OpenVMS into =
>the modern world but to leapfrog ahead and IMO, that doesn't involve keepin=
>g DCL as OpenVMS's CLI
>
>We need to look beyond existing OpenVMS users (myself included) and their c=
>omfort levels but look to what will attract new people to OpenVMS. It's not=
> going to be 64 bit DCL. People these days are not willing to invest time a=
>nd effort into learning just another language unless they see it has longev=
>ity and possibility a job at the end of it. I've seen this trend in people =
>asking on forums about whether or not they should learn language X or Y. So=
>rry, but DCL isn't going to get a look in.=20
>
>Python might go someways to attracting people willing to port libraries and=
> code to OpenVMS but DCL no matter how enhanced will not (unless it's porte=
>d to other OS's and the chances of that happening are less than zero!)
>
>OpenVMS needs to move away from being so different to Linux while keeping a=
>nd enhancing what makes it awesome. Moving to a cross-platform scripting la=
>nguage like Python should go some way (maybe a long way) to helping with th=
>at task
>
>My 2c worth

Fuck that.  If you want Linux, get linux.  

Python?  Gack!  Unnecessary Ubersuperbloatwarez for the task(s) that DCL
should be used to solve.

DCL is perfect for what it does and what it should be used for.  Trying to
write programs, any programs, that would be better served by writing them
in any compiled language using DCL is, IMNSHO, stupid.  Besides, you can't
execute a command in Python such as "$ SHOW PROCESS" without going through
hurdles because that command (or any for that matter) is issued via a sub-
process.  

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.