[Info-vax] OpenVMS x86-64 and RDB and DB's in general on OpenVMS

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2015-06-28 11:31:10 +0000, IanD said:


Welcome!   You're rather late to this particular party, but it's nice 
to see somebody else pondering the sorry state of integrated data 
storage on OpenVMS.

> Now that OpenVMS x86-64 is at least officially on the radar, has any 
> information been forthcoming about RDB on x86 under OpenVMS?

Read the backlog.  Oracle is interested in the port, but there've been 
no commitments.  There likely won't be commitments until VSI is rather 
further along, too.   Oracle — if they're even interested in supporting 
OpenVMS x86 here — will want and will need a detailed look at what 
would be involved in the x86-64 environment, at how likely their Rdb 
customers will be to migrate and to spend, and at whether VSI will even 
be around.  If there'll be any support announcement, it'll probably be 
no sooner than after the first external field tests of the port.

> The need for a DB of some sorts?

Read the backlog.    Yes, there is.

> A DB was once considered mandatory as a product to have available on a 
> given OS platform, Windows and Access (later sql server), Linux and 
> MySQL, OpenVMS and RDB, IBM and DB2 bla bla bla, what to do about 
> OpenVMS x86-64 and <blank>, what should be inserted here if it's not 
> going to be RDB?

Read the backlog.  There are typically optional databases, and there 
are integrated databases.   It won't be Oracle Rdb that's integrated, 
not without paying Oracle for each copy of OpenVMS that ships.   VSI 
wants and needs this for many of their (potential) OpenVMS x86 
customers.  Oracle will be looking to profit from the effort, as should 
be expected.  As for databases that might be reasonable to integrate, 
PostgreSQL and SQLite are obvious choices, and both have licenses that 
are amenable to such integration.

> PostgreSQL is slowly rising through the ranks (4th position, up from 
> 5th) but it is tiny compared to the main one's and getting it working 
> on OpenVMS with cluster awareness I suspect is years in the making?

Read the backlog.  PostgreSQL is mostly ported over, but encountered 
some C environment differences; incompatibilities.  SQLite is ported 
and has worked for my limited usage and local test cases.  Now getting 
these supportable and "performant" in clustered environments may well 
be more effort and more entertaining.

> With nosql db's starting to forge their own market share, stagnating 
> traditional relational DB's market share, I wonder how much energy 
> should be expended in this area anyhow?

Read the backlog.  A NoSQL... like.... RMS?  NoSQL databases work for 
some applications — RMS included — and relational databases work well 
for others.

> I like Cassandra as a nosql DB, no single point of failure sort of 
> melds in with the OpenVMS cluster concept but it also by-passes the 
> need for a traditional OpenVMS style of cluster too

Apache Hadoop is a framework for large-scale distributed applications — 
way past what an OpenVMS cluster can provide — and Apache Cassandra 
integrates with that.

OpenVMS clustering is — as I've been commenting for a while — not 
necessary for many large-scale environments, and clustering doesn't 
provide particularly large-scale configurations by present-day 
standards.

There are other distributed databases and options.   "Below" Cassandra 
in scale, PostgreSQL has streaming replication and hot-standby 
(replicas can field read queries) capabilities.

> Is having a DB still mandatory when it comes to an OS's success or is 
> that a by-gone concept now and if it's not a by-gone concept, then what 
> DB should VSI be looking at for OpenVMS market attractiveness?

Again, read the backlog.  Databases are central to the operating system 
itself, too.  VSI has to store that OS data somewhere, and RMS adds 
constraints, not the least of which is the utter pain involved when you 
have to change the record formats down at the punched card emulation 
layer.  RMS utterly stinks at that, and that's a key part of upgrading 
and changing and enhancing and better-securing OpenVMS and its 
environments.



-- 
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC