[Info-vax] Beyond Open Source

[David Froble]

seasoned_geek wrote:
> On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 8:31:56 AM UTC-5, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
>> Much like text editors, there'll be debates over software licenses.   
>> As getting folks interested in a project, the license is a factor, but 
>> the tool has to be or have a path to being useful.  Outside of its 
>> installed applications, there's very little reason for folks to select 
>> and use OpenVMS right now.   Open source will not change that.  Only a 
>> whole lot of work by VSI, and substantial work from the commercial 
>> providers in the community, might change that.  Might.
>>
>> Open-sourcing does not magically produce piles of skilled programmers 
>> ready and willing and able to work on the platform.
>>
> 
> No. During the 80s and into the 90s DEC used to have VARs (the name changed a few times, but Value Added Reseller is what they were called during my day.) Each one of those had some canned application sold in customized form to clients. Compaq and HP all but decimated that market. Yes, there are some people like our good friend David selling licenses and hardware, but the third leg of the stool is missing. That ERP, order entry, accounting, warehouse management, etc. application which comes bundled with it. As a VAR we sold DEC equipment to shops which had either never had computer systems or had competing computer systems. They were buying the lifeblood of their business.
> 
> Sounds like Dave (not David) might still be a VAR.
> 
> I know there are a couple who sell systems into credit unions. There were several that sold warehouse management systems on VMS but they may be gone as well.
> 
> I'm bringing this up because this OpenSource will never and can never work for VMS. The OS serves a completely different market.
> 
> That said, stealing the licensing model for VMS, or adopting something close to it "could" work, IF AND ONLY IF VARs still exist and new ones would care to join or old ones would care to come back.
> 
> Cerner keeps claiming to be "off VMS" and I still keep seeing ads for VMS programmers to come work for them. If VMS revenue stream was up-ended so there wasn't this massive license fee up front would that bring them back?
> 
> I ask the question of Cerner in particular because my local hospital has just begun yet another massive migration of their systems. Less than 2 years ago they bought what they believed was best of breed only to find out the medical records from all of the different groups/divisions aren't integrated and accessible by all divisions. The notes/vitals/etc. home healthcare makes on a patient are not automatically rolled into the patient record the surgeons and doctors can see.
> 
> They went out looking for a solution to the problem. All new computer hardware + OS doesn't matter to them. They need the problem solved and they bought a solution. A big ticket solution. This isn't going into just one hospital, it is going into the entire hospital network owned by that company. You will be able to go to any unit in any state and have your doctor back home have access to the records.
> 
> Despite all of this "just use the cheap sh*t" MBA mentality, there are still businesses and areas of other businesses where quality of the solution matters. If VMS had something like a nominal $100 license fee (if they need something just to cover the paperwork like a co-pay,) and the rest of the revenue stream came from the support contract, it could once again resurrect its VAR model.
> 
> Every couple of years I either run into or hear from someone running a business. They have been trying to survive with worthless Windows systems and the applications available, but, what they really need is the ERP system my (and many other) VARs sold, tailored to their business practices, with a Web interface. I cannot direct them anywhere. I don't know of any that exist. Even if I did know of some, if they have to pay some $100K (just using big number here) OS license fee in addition to the hardware, application and customization, it simply isn't going to happen. Very few businesses with under $5 million in sales are willing to drop $1 million on a computer system to make their business run smoother.
> 
> There are still businesses out there which care about the application. What computer it is on simply doesn't matter to them.

Much of the above is right on target.  Both the need for specific 
solutions, and the MBA thinking that generic is good enough.

Codis is still viable because it solves the problems our customers have, 
and it is continually developed to solve new problems as they show up. 
I will admit that the company was slow to provide browser interfaces. 
However, we did provide the services to get data, and some third party 
web developers have used them to set up web facing "stores".  We did 
have to educate some, as an example, the service that provides product 
availability and pricing can handle a list of products, and one guy was 
requesting the data one product at a time.  The network sort of took a 
beating until we rehabilitated that guy.

As for that hospital, didn't they do any due diligence in picking a 
solution?  Seems like the reported shortcomings are rather basic (sic).