[Info-vax] grey screen of death

[Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER]

In article <mjt31v$16mu$1 at news.kjsl.com>, helbig at asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) writes:
>In article <5561e787$1 at news.langstoeger.at>, peter at langstoeger.at (Peter
>'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: 
>
>> *) You have a dying X11 server on your Alpha
>
>It's not working; whether it is "dying" I don't know.

Please find out. Do you have problems with your DECW$SERVER_0 process
(it dies) or do you have problems with DTLOGIN not starting or dying?
(Or you already did, told us some time ago, and I misread it)

>> *) You haven't found related accounting records or there are none
>
>The DECW$SERVER_0 or whatever process creates the DTLOGIN process.  This 
>lasts just a couple of seconds.  It seems to produce the "request for 
>dump" or whatever in the auditing file.  The DECW$SERVER_0 process does 
>this every few seconds for a few minutes then stops.  During the loop, 
>the grey screen of death changes to the black background with the 
>hourglass, which is normally what appears immediately before the CDE 
>login box comes up.

Grey is a symptom of a running (OpenVMS) X11 server, not of a died one.

>Of course, if someone responsible says that it is OK for me to install a 
>newer patch and see what happens, then I'm willing to do that, but I 
>would prefer to stick with the official hobbyist kit.

As I'm not "responsible", I can only tell, that I like to have the
latest ECO (as long as it breaks not something I want to use)...

>Maybe someone with access to the 8.4 patch release notes can see if 
>there is any thing related to looping processes involving CDE and/or 
>DECwindows and if so let me know which patch it is in.  Maybe a newer 
>UPDATE can then be made available for hobbyists.  Someone in this thread 
>posted something about a looping DECW process on 8.4, which is what I 
>have.

I posted that I had a looping DECW$SERVER process (at prio 6!!) after
an upgrade. But this was not in this thread, as it happened with V8.3
(or V8.2?) already. And this was caused by leaving Open3D installed.
Deinstall OPEN3D before upgrading to OpenVMS Alpha V8 (an API has changed).

>> *) You have working DECwindows client, as you could prove with an X11 server
>> on a remote system (like another of your OpenVMS systems with a working
>> X11 server or like a PC with a X11 server like eXcursion or eXceed or ...)
>> but you have not done so
>
>I did do RUN SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CLOCK on the 8.4 system with the display 
>directed to a 7.3-2 system.  This works.

So, you already proved that your X11 clients are working. That is good.

>> My suggestion is:
>> *) Get yourself a PC with a working X11 server (and login via SSH/Putty
>> and X11 forwarding enabled and then CREATE/TERMINAL/DETACHED to get a DTTERM
>> or use the XDM functionality of the X11 server to login via DTGREET/DTLOGIN)
>> and prove that your problem is only your OpenVMS DECW$SERVER_0 process
>
>I'll check this in more detail.  I do remember at one time bringing up 
>not just a DECTerm window but the whole CDE login box on a remote 
>display.

Yes, CREATE/TERMINAL only brings up a DTTERM while an XDM login brings up
the whole CDE environment (DECW$SESSION, DECW$MWM and other autostart apps)

Why not use it this way? Have your Alpha in your basement, and a PC with
an X11 server (why not excursion?) on your desk and a DECterm as the
way to work with VMS (or even better a PC with PuTTY to login via SSH).

And fixing your OpenVMS X11 server some time problem later (after all
other work is done). Don't let it block you...

>> *) Complete your upgrade activities (including DECnet installation ;-)
>
>I think everyone agrees that DECnet is not relevant here.  I do plan to 
>get it running, hopefully this year, but I think it's not a good idea to 
>change too many things at once.

Yes, DECnet is not relevant here. But I don't want to chase an error
which disappears on its own while doing other things (like AUTOGEN ;-)

>> 	check SYS$STARTUP:DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG
>
>Nothing there.  Essentially the same as with 7.3-2.

Define "Nothing there", no file there or no content that *you* find useful.

>> 	check ACCOUNTING for data of DECW$SERVER_0 process (username SYSTEM)
>
>Have done so and posted the -F- message.

And this was the DECW$SERVER_0 process or the DTLOGIN or the DTGREET or ...?

>> -) increase debugging info

>> 	and by using AVAILMAN (and watch the process quotas)
>
>I don't think I have that installed.  Even if I did, I have no 
>experience with it.

It is a useful thing for a system manager. Start using it RSN !!

>Again, someone did mention a looping DECwindows server in 8.4.  This 
>seems like a typical thing a patch would correct.

But not neccessarily a VMS ECO. Could be a MOTIF ECO as well.
(Or as I found out a decade ago the hard way, deinstalling the OPEN3D kit ;-)

>                                                  I suspect that most 
>8.4 early adopters were not running DECwindows, so it might have been 
>fixed after UPDATE5.  If someone can find something relevant in the 
>release notes for newer patches, that would be the obvious avenue to 
>explore, and maybe the hobbyists can get a newer update made available.

You have the release notes for UPDATE 10, check yourself. But AFAIK, there
is no problem in VMS, as I had no such problem (not even on my XP1000) with
OpenVMS Alpha V8.4 and DECwindow-MOTIF V1.2-7 for 5 (!) years now (so far ;-)

Good luck (again)
-- 
Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTÖGER
Network and OpenVMS system specialist
E-mail  Peter at LANGSTOeGER.at
A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist