[Info-vax] Product Install

[Bill Cunningham]

"IanD" <iloveopenvms at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:8bbb9c12-9305-4898-ab68-e93ea5e63b95 at googlegroups.com...
On Sunday, February 28, 2016 at 9:21:00 AM UTC+11, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2016-02-27 20:25, Bill Cunningham wrote:
>

<snip>

> You know, say say you are bookmarking things all the time. Do you ever
> read any of it? Because pretty much all questions you ask seem to be
> based on you just trying any random combination of letters and commands
> you happen to come up with, and then (surprise) nothing good happens.
> And then you ask questions why you are failing.
>
> If you actually read the documentation you should instead know what to
> type, and what to expect.
>
> Johnny
>
> -- 
> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>                                    ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjarxxxx            ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


I am working with folk at the moment who only want to know 'what command do 
I enter to do 'xyz'' with little want to go through the VMS learning 
pathways

When I was a lad (Monthy Python) one followed the traditional doc set from 
user based manuals through to system manager to cluster management and 
somewhere in there you could also through in programming as well

If the OP wants to look at the training on offer by VSI, perhaps not even 
with the view of undertaking but to have a look at the typical learning 
paths that will stand them in good steed for VMS, they might do well

Of all the times I have hit my head against the VMS wall, it was because I 
had failed to first go through the documentation to gain both an overview 
and then the philosophy of design behind a given product / layer

Sure, some of VMS's stuff around networking, in particular, tcp/ip is 
painful and almost smacks of nothing more than a unix document reformed to 
look like it came out of the VMS press system but the rest is pretty good. 
These days it's online too, nothing more than a click or two away, no 
begging the boss  to unlock the holy grail cabinet of vms doco like when I 
was a lad

Try as I might, with the lot I deal with, I have not even got them to go 
over the VMS user guide which I think is the first port of call before even 
considering moving on to trying to set up a system. They simply cbf!  Yes, 
it is a catch 22, to have a working system to learn VMS user concepts from 
you have to install a system! never-the-less, from many of the posts I have 
seen by the OP, having a deep hard look at the user manuals and 
progressively moving to the system manuals might prove to be a better 
learning experience than the current attempts to get a system working?

Here is a pdf version of the user guide

http://h20565.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623190

Also, it appears the OP is running the Vax version? Why? with the good VMS 
Alpha emulators that are available, why start with old Vax stuff?

8.4 on Alpha is 5 years old now and that's bad enough because the doco 
probably has not been touched for at least 3 - 5 years before that!

The last Vax update was 2001 making it more than ancient. Dealing with stuff 
that old is asking for unnecessary pain IMO

   One thing I would like to do. Get on decuserve and look through that 
notebook thing. It's nowhere in the user's guide that I see. At all. Maybe 
I'm overlooking it. But I've seen a lot of "notes" or messages in that 
thingy. But it needs some docs about it. All I've seen is online and it 
helped up to a point.