[Info-vax] Trouble in paradise?

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Den 2016-01-12 kl. 14:44, skrev David Froble:
> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>> Den 2016-01-12 kl. 08:28, skrev David Froble:
>>> Richard Maher wrote:
>>>> On 9/24/2015 8:14 PM, Richard Maher wrote:
>>>>> On 9/24/2015 11:00 AM, David Froble wrote:
>>>>>> The US doesn't have government health care.  In my opinion, it
>>>>>> should. Health care should be available to anyone who is in need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why should someone sacrifice their kids' education to pay for your
>>>>> breast implants?
>>>>>
>>>> 8< 8<
>>>>> I believe in a social-welfare safety net! Even for the grave-dodgers
>>>>> that fill the Doctors' waiting rooms for a social outing.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I also long for the degradation in Jan-Erik's medical experience
>>>>> as he is invaded by economic refugees who also think his benefits are
>>>>> too good to pass.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not so Bolshevik any more eh? "Shut the borders!", "Tell Denmark to fuck
>>>> off!"
>>>>
>>>> Ah, hold the phone "The government and the police must collude to cover
>>>> up any mention of perpetrator ethnicity when reporting the sexual assault
>>>> of Swedish girls at the youth concert! At least until after the election
>>>> of our Socialist comrades."
>>>>
>>>> Yep that's more like the loony-left Swedish nanny state that we remember.
>>>> You just can't rely on adults making the correct decisions if they are
>>>> presented with ALL the facts. Soon they'll be pandering to populist
>>>> right-wing policies and having other "incorrect" thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Is it true "Trump" is a Swedish name?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not the best subject for c.o.v, but, well, here we are ....
>>>
>>> Congratulations, your attention span is a bit better than that of a gnat.
>>> Too many people "forget" way too quickly ....
>>>
>>> Before you blame Sweden (and Germany) for being loony, perhaps compare them
>>> to North Africa and the Middle east.  I feel that the loony-left in Europe
>>> will come off rather well in that comparison.  So, perhaps keep the blame
>>> properly targeted, so you don't become as misguided as those you attempt to
>>> ridicule.
>>>
>>> As for Europe welcoming the "refugees" with open arms, well, yeah, they
>>> have those pushing for "political correctness", and if they embrace such,
>>> they will get what they already got.
>>
>> Now, neither "Europe" nor "Sweden" is a entity were everyone
>> think the same. In Sweden there are many (a majority) that thinks
>> that it's enough now and that wwe have taken our part.
>>
>> In "Europe" (or rather the EU) there are other countries that
>> has close to none refugee, slightly rounded, compared to
>> Sweden and Germany.
>>
>>> As an example, look at what happened
>>> in Cologne during the new year celebration.  This was nothing unexpected.
>>
>> Agree.
>>
>>> All the towel heads did there what they would have done "back home" should
>>> they encounter a bunch of women who didn't decently cover their bodies.
>>> They didn't come to Europe to embrace the customs and civilization there,
>>> they came to Europe with their own disgusting (my opinion) customs and lack
>>> of civilization (my opinion) with the intention of continuing to practice
>>> such, regardless of the customs and laws and opinions in Europe.
>>
>> Disagree. There doesn't have to be any specific thought or will behind.
>> It is just a natural and expected outcome when you move young people
>> between such different background and cultures. Same thing as then
>> young Swedish teenagers from rich families went to the ski-resorts
>> in Austria and got thrown out because of their behaviour.
>
> I do't know anything about Swedish teenagers and Austria.  But I'd like to
> hear what they did that was as bad as a mass assault on German women.  Got
> anything like that?
>

I never said it was "as bad", I just said that the psychological backround
is similar. Someone pulled from its roots and put into a different
environment. There is no valuation in that. Not that either environment
or "culture" is "better" or "worse", its just what happens in these
cases. Noone should be particulary surpriced.



> What happened in Germany was much more than childish pranks.  There was
> intent.  It appeared to be pre-planned.  Sorry about your disagreement,
> I'll take it as an act against the civilization and customs of the German
> women, until you or someone can prove different.

Agree, of course. I do not understand why you think I don't.
I just isn't particulary surpriced...

>
>>> In
>>> another era there would have been a more immediate reaction and solution to
>>> the problems.  Ah, how a good rope, or tar and feathers, are sorely missed
>>> ....
>>>
>>> But as you observe, we are our own worst enemy.  I got to ask, in how many
>>> countries would it be acceptable to have a quarter million dead and 11
>>> million refugees to keep an unpopular ruler / dictator in power? Heck, the
>>> Chinese didn't kill so many in Tienanmen Square!  I'd call the guy (Mr
>>> Assad) Syria's biggest terrorist, and if the less than bright US government
>>> really meant to go after terrorists, there would have been a 2000 lb guided
>>> munition through the guy's bedroom window years ago.
>>>
>>> As for Trump, he's catering to the 'rednecks", who all think there are
>>> simple solutions to every problem.  It's the same thing Republicans in the
>>> US have done for many years, even though Republicans and rednecks are
>>> barely on the same planet.  Best thing that could happen to the Republican
>>> party in the US.
>>>
>>> Now, while it's rather serious to be blaming the terrorist problem on a
>>> religion,...
>>
>> The root problem is to be found in the few years right after WW-I when
>> UK and France took a map and a ruler and created what is today known
>> as Syria, Jordania, Iran, Irak, Quwait, Saudi-Arabia and so on. There
>> was no thought about the actual people living there, only on the oil
>> that had been discovered a few years before.
>
> I've read this theory more than once.  It seems to hold together, and is an
> excuse some hold for continuing disorder.

You are mixing up "excuse" with "root cause". You have to be able to
explain things without also taking it as an excuse for the current
state of affairs. Simle mistake by simple minded people.


> However, it doesn't seem to me
> to be an adequate reason for continued hate.  I think the reasons may lie
> in the inability of some humans to act in a civilized manner.  Other parts
> of the world have gone through changes, and while there may be friction,
> nowhere else does it approach what's seems perpetual in the part of the
> world where Islam exists.

This is only the last 4-5 decades of "Islam". A few centuries ago it
was the complete opposit. In Spain, it was the Islamic parts that
gave shelter to the Jews that was persecuted by the christian
parts of (what was later becoming) Spain.

So the picture is not as clear or simple as some tend to think.

One can not use IS or other groups to make an general valuation
of islamic people in general. It's like using the IRA to show off
how Christians behave in general terms. Or for that matter, the
Jewish terrorist groups that was active in the 40s in the
Middle East. They are all three examples of extremists within
it own religious group. Just like within more or less any
other religous group.


>
> Recently there was an item in the news, a picture of a young woman, chained
> in a pit, to be stoned to death.  When I think of this, I look at my
> granddaughter, and think, how can such evil exist.  The only answer I can
> think of is, because we allow it to exist.
>
> If this is religion.

Only to a lesser degree. It's mostly a cultural thing.

> Don't blame Western civilization.  Blame the hate and disregard for human
> life that exists in some places.

With some perspective, it is more or less everywere.

How many of the reasent school shootings in the US had (any)
religious background? I guess that "Western civilization"
had nothing to do with it, right?


>
>> The second couse of todays problems in the area is the creation of
>> a new country out of the blue in 1947 and the politics from that
>> country since then. That had created many of todays "terrorists".
>
> What?  Another Jew hater?

Where? Are you talkning about me? I do not agree with parts
of the *politics* from the Israelian state/gov. But that has
nothing at all to do with religion. I didn't agree with the
politics of the former govt of South Africa either. Or a number
of other former or current govt "out there".

That is also a major mistake by many (inlcuding the Isrealian govt
itself) to mix up the Israelian state and its politics with religion.

> They are just people, like anyone else.

Of course they are! As are the families that was forced from
their land and properties by the emigrants that flooded into
this new country.

Those that thinks that there are simple solutions (using weapons
or other "powers") to solve this are of course wrong. I do not have
any solution out of my pocket, but continuing as it is today,
will not solve anything.

 > Don't blame them for the hate in some people.

The "hate" is from both sides, of course.
It just different reasons behind it.