[Info-vax] Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2016-06-23 23:41, VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <nkhf9i$7s3$1 at Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
>> On 2016-06-23 21:34, VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>> In article <nkhd0k$2us$2 at Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
>>>> There are plenty of ways to design protocols.
>>>> Doing the size after the file will not allow you to have any
>>>> understanding of how much space should be reserved for the file, nor get
>>>> any idea of how far you are from completion.
>>>> But that should not stop you.
>>>
>>> So I can get a silly progression bar graphic or, like on linux, file transfer
>>> time left is 8 mins... 7 mins.. 9 mins... ... 10 secs... 5 secs... 14 secs...
>>> 2 sec., nearly complete...  transfer complete.
>>
>> I was merely pointing out why protocols have been designed the way that
>> they pass the size before the data. You might not enjoy the results, and
>> you are free to design your own protocols. It don't change the existing
>> protocols, and it will not make other people change how they design
>> protocols, since some of them really think there is a benefit in this.
>>
>>> Anyway, there are web servers for VMS and several other TCP/IP protocols for
>>> VMS.  You may need to ask those who have successfully implemented those how to
>>> approach your issue if you don't want to use the RFM=STM approach.  I really
>>> don't see why you think that's wrong.  *ix text files are streams with <CR>s
>>> and <LF>s, and binary files are, IIRC, sent in multiples of a block of some
>>> size (512).
>>
>> Uh? Say what? Everything in TCP/IP is just a stream of bytes. There are
>> no blocks, nothing is sent in any multiple of blocks.
>> (And besides, text files in Unix do not have CF and LF in them. They
>> just have LF. Which is why I was complaining about Unix ftp
>> implementations, which often lies about file size, and sometimes cheat
>> when transferring in text mode. These protocols were not designed by
>> Unix people...)
>
> How do they deal with those lies?

Unix don't really deal with it. People just ignore it, and since Unix to 
Unix avoids that mode of transfer, it works correctly for Unix to Unix 
transfers. Unix people seldom (if ever) tests against anything non-Unix.

For something really interesting, try involving a PDP-10, with variable 
byte size... The FTP protocol was design with that in mind as well, but 
Unix systems totally will not deal with it.

	Johnny