[Info-vax] improving EDT

[johnwallace4 at yahoo.co.uk]

On Thursday, 17 November 2016 21:27:45 UTC, Jan-Erik Soderholm  wrote:
> Den 2016-11-17 kl. 21:37, skrev Kerry Main:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf
> >> Of David Froble via Info-vax
> >> Sent: 17-Nov-16 1:40 PM
> >> To: info-vax at rbnsn.com
> >> Cc: David Froble <davef at tsoft-inc.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] improving EDT
> >>
> >> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> >>> Den 2016-11-17 kl. 15:06, skrev Bob Koehler:
> >>>> In article <o0iuam$kpd$2 at gioia.aioe.org>,
> >>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne at vajhoej.dk> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Notepad++ and Atom seems to be preferred general editors
> >>>>> these days.
> >>>>
> >>>>    Preferred by who?  Nobody around here.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes, and that is part of the general problem.
> >>> Many here still lives in the past. Doesn't work as well today
> > as it
> >>> did in the past...
> >>>
> >>
> >> Don't know about that.  I'm thinking that everything I do today
> > is
> >> based on the past.  As far as I can tell, things that have been
> >> around for a while still do everything they did when first
> >> developed.
> >>
> >> I have no problem adopting better methods, things, and such.
> >> It's what I've always done in the past, "the past" being
> > everything
> >> up to each letter I type.
> >> But I will not adopt anything, just because it's new.  It must
> > show
> >> itself to be better, better enough for me to abandon what I
> >> already have learned.
> >>
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Part of the challenge is that some like to promote todays trends
> > and technologies as being "current" or "next generation" or
> > similar hype, and anyone who talks about the past is a dinosaur.
> > The reality is that many of these current trends are
> > vendor/media/analyst hype of simple enhancements of past products
> > and technologies.
> >
> > Most here have likely read this dinosaur article, but it bears
> > repeating:
> > http://thedailywtf.com/articles/Jurassic-Programmers-
> >
> > A few examples of today's hype:
> > - Public Clouds: aka selective IT Outsourcing
> > - Private Clouds: aka internal shared services, aka IT Utility,
> > aka Real-Time Enterprise (Gartner), aka Adaptive Enterprise (Meta
> > Group, HP)
> > - SOA: aka DCE (distributed computing environment), aka NAS (DEC
> > network application services). Great in concept, and concepts do
> > have a place, but while getting 5 dev groups to change the way
> > they develop apps might be possible, good luck getting any more
> > than that to change and agree on who, how, what, when and why
> > specific services should be built, deployed and supported.
> > - Virtualization: while usually associated with today's server
> > technologies like VMware, Xen, Hyper-V, server virtualization was
> > in place with nPars, lPars, mainframes, application stacking for
> > decades before the current X86-64 focused products came on the
> > scene.
> > - Cloud Bursting: gobbligoop term created by cloud washing
> > promoters to mean being able to dynamically expand a computing
> > presence from one outsourcer (public cloud vendor) to another
> > outsourcer. Great in theory, but has little reality when one
> > considers security, data backup, data fail-back, WAN MPLS
> > connections (offers availability, but not latency guarantees) and
> > a host of other issues.
> > - SDN: software defined networks: great concept except no
> > Customer is going to throw away their existing multi-vendor,
> > multi-platform network infrastructure for a single vendor network
> > infrastructure. What about network security, support complexity
> > etc?
> >
> > Manufacturing Customers are often viewed as Dinosaurs because
> > they hang on to older technologies for longer than most. In
> > reality, they simply understand that just because something is
> > shinier and sounds cool, it does not necessarily mean they should
> > change simply for the sake of change.
> >
> > Learning from the past to plan for the future ...
> >
> 
> A lot of fun stuff there...
> 
> But, we are only talkning about giving (new) programmers
> on VMS a decent environment to work in. I do not understand
> why you drag clouds and all that stuff into the picture.
> 
> I do not understand your post. Are you saying that editing code in
> EDT/TPU is "better" then editing code in one of todays popular IDE's?
> 
> 
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kerry Main
> > Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Better for who, in order to achieve what, exactly?

Someone very familiar with VMS can be very productive on
VMS, as is. What's the point of forcing folk like that to
work unproductively in an unfamiliar IDE (especially in
cases where VMS is still seen as a limited lifetime system)?

On the other hand there are lots of people out there who
are familiar with stuff like Notepad++ or Eclipse or [etc]
and it might not be a bad idea for someone (doesn't have
to be VSI) to put some thought into making these folks life
more comfortable and productive when working in and with
the VSIVMS environment.

Some of this stuff exists already and has been mentioned
here. Some of it, like the DECset client for Windows, is
as old as the hills, and thus would likely be entirely
unfashionable even if it was any good. Other products
along those lines may be available, commercially and/or
free.

More and better such stuff (or at least more visibility for
decent stuff that exists) would probably be welcome.