[Info-vax] Variable declarations, was: Re: improving EDT

[David Froble]

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 11/28/16 11:14 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 11/23/2016 11:49 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> Don't do .Net or J2EE.  Web integration doesn't require it anyway.
>>> I have written web programs in COBOL.  I converted a broken PHP
>>> program that was used for the Department's High School Programming
>>> Contest into COBOL just as a "proof of concept". (Remember the comment
>>> earlier about the maintainability, or lack thereof, of PHP. A change
>>> in PHP with a new version broke the running script.  The student who
>>> wrote it couldn't figure out what it actually did in order to fix it.
>>> 2 students and a professor spent days trying to fix it.  I wrote my
>>> COBOL version in about a half hour.  I wrote a version is Bourne Shell
>>> using awk, which is still running today, in about 15 minutes.

>>
>>> The only place COBOL is dead is academia.  They are already feeling
>>> the pinch from tech/trade schools.  I can see a future (not to
>>> distant)  where they will start teaching things like COBOL and
>>> academia will feel the bite even more.  No one comes out of a trade
>>> school with $100,000 in debt and no prospects for a real job.
>>
>> There has been a lot of talk about the problem of COBOL
>> programmers retiring resulting in a shortage.
>>
>> But it seems like it has not materialized.
> 
> Really? I thought I mentioned it here, but maybe it was somewhere
> else.  The place in GA I went to do COBOL for a few months just went
> thru their fourth attempt to find a replacement.  Not one qualified
> applicant.  Is the COBOL going away?  I asked about that because I
> have a scheme that would make it possible with minimal impact on the
> users.  Their answer: "No, it is not going away.  It will just sit
> there and run like it has since I left 4 years ago."  This is
> problematic in itself but does show that people are not rushing to
> get rid of their COBOL.

If something works, and is doing the job, what possible advantage is there to 
re-write or replace the it?



> The problem with COBOL is academia, not the language.  Somewhere along
> the line it was decided to kill COBOL.  They stopped teaching it and
> went so far s to start telling students that even learning it would
> ruin their career prospects (Yeah, can you believe that learning
> anything in addition to whatever else  you studied could do that!)

Now, that is a bit funny, and a lot scary.  Bigotry and prejudice.  Those 
teachers should be looking for a job in journalism.  Remember, those who can, 
do, those who can't teach, and those who can't teach are journalists. 
Obviously, those teachers you've mentioned are not qualified for the job they have.

:-)


> If you read a lot of newspaper articles,blogs, etc. you will see that
> there is a new trend coming about.  (Actually, it is just the return
> in a cycle that has been going on forever) Graduates from Tech/Trade
> Schools are starting to find it easier to get jobs than College Grads.
> And they are receiving higher starting salaries.  The world outside
> academia is beginning to see less value in Degrees and more in Diplomas.
> Not a surprise, I got into this business at a time when my not having a
> degree was not a minus.  There is a major opportunity here for some
> school who wants to create a CIS program that actually meets the needs
> of business instead of trying to steer businesses in academia's chosen
> direction.  General Dynamics has a contract to maintain the DOD Medical
> Information System (Which they probably wrote many tears ago).  It is in
> COBOL.  A few years ago they were offering internships to CS students
> with the intent of taking students with a basic background and teaching
> them COBOL on the job.  Of course these internships frequently lead to a
> well paying job on graduation.  I am sure that conversation with some of
> the other larger COBOL shops I know of could lead to similar internship
> agreements between schools and businesses.  All it takes is a school
> that has not been blinded by the light coming from the academic ivory
> tower.

Nothing wrong with a degree.  It shows that one can at least accomplish a task. 
  In either case, real learning begins only in the working world.  True with 
many things, including VMS.  You want good people, you got to train them.