[Info-vax] Programming languages on VMS

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 2/4/2018 9:55 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 02/03/2018 10:10 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 1/31/2018 3:48 PM, seasoned_geek wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 9:36:04 AM UTC-6, DaveFroble wrote:
>>>> John, you know a bit about languages.  Let me ask a question.
>>>> I'll preface the question by admitting that I view much of the "new 
>>>> languages"
>>>> as some people who just want to "re-invent the wheel".
>>>>
>>>> Do the "new languages" actually present more and better capabilities?
>>>
>>> offering 0.0002 cents here.
>>>
>>> The new languages are targeted at "script kiddies."
>>
>> That sounds extremely bad.
>>
>> You do know what "script kiddies" mean right?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie
>>
>> I suspect that the big corporations and open source projects
>> behind new languages would be very sad to hear that you believe
>> their effort is targeting those.
> 
> Well, big corporations aren't making these scripting languages.  I
> tend to think of  them as ego trips for the creator as in most cases
> they weren't really needed and provide  nothing we didn't already have.

I would say that a good deal of newer languages comes from
corporations.

My understanding:

Java - SUN
C# - Microsoft
Kotlin - Jetbrains
Go - Google
Swift - Apple
JavaScript - Netscape

Python - open source
Ruby - open source
Scala - open source
Rust - open source
PHP - open source

>>> These kids wouldn't know what a debugger was because everything they 
>>> write is interpreted.
>>
>> I am sure many of them:
>> * have tried compiled languages
>> * have tried debugger
>> * unlike you are aware that interpreted languages can be debugged
> 
> All of our students do compiled languages, IDE's, debuggers and at
> some point interpreted languages, as well.  The first language they
> learn now is Java (a development from Fortran -> Pascal -> Ada ->Java).

Java, C#, C++, C and Python seems to be popular languages
in higher education.

Most of them are compiled.

All of them see significant demand.

I believe that some finer places like to teach OCAML and Haskell. Those
languages are not in demand, but I believe those people will easily find
jobs anyway.

>> Illinois State University
>>
>> https://illinoisstate.edu/downloads/catalog/it.pdf
>>
>> offers:
>>
>> 378 DATABASE PROCESSING
>> 3 sem. hrs.
>> Database concepts, emphasis on relational databases, SQL,
>> data modeling, database design, DBMS functions, database
>> application programming, current trends, design project.
>> Prerequisites: Grade of C or better in IT 261. Major or
>> minor only or consent of the school advisor.
>>
>> and:
>>
>> 272 COBOL AS A SECOND LANGUAGE
>> 4 sem. hrs.
>> COBOL language for students with substantial programming
>> experience in another language. Emphasizes structured
>> problem-solving and programming. Prerequisites:
>> Grade of C or better in IT 178. Major or minor only or consent
>> of the school advisor.
> 
> Careful with this one.  The real question should be when was the
> last time this course was offered.  We carried COBOL on the books
> for over a decade without offering it once until the curriculum
> committee had it removed from the catalog. What COBOL students
> learned during the period was in a course called File Processing
> which was done in COBOL until they finally drove COBOL out of
> the department completely (over my objections!)

I have no idea if the course actually happens.

It is listed as an option.

>> but nothing about agile at all.
> 
> I am sure they learn of Agile if not in more detail.  It would be
> in courses like:
> 
>        326 PRINCIPLES OF SOFTWARE ENGINEERING
>        262 INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY PROJECT MANAGEMENT
>        191 INTRODUCTION TO IT PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE
> 
> And, maybe one or two others.

I am sure that they will get some introduction.

I think it would be pretty bad if they left a CS study
without knowing what waterfall, iterative, UP, agile, SCRUM
etc. means.

But agile does not seem to be a dominant topic.

Arne