[Info-vax] DZQ11 on VAX/4000 Model 300

[johnwallace4 at yahoo.co.uk]

On Monday, 14 January 2019 23:25:57 UTC, johnwa... at yahoo.co.uk  wrote:
> On Monday, 14 January 2019 21:19:24 UTC, David Wade  wrote:
> > On 14/01/2019 17:42, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> > > On 2019-01-14 17:04:41 +0000, David Wade said:
> > > 
> > >>   I have just installed a DZQ11 in my VAX/4000 and once I figured out 
> > >> I had by "A" and "B" pins mixed up on the BERG connector  (I had to 
> > >> fabricate a lead as it came without any) on a brief test it seems to 
> > >> be working just fine.
> > >>
> > >> However when I removed it the VAX seemed to hang on boot. I popped it 
> > >> back in and it seems to be working fine.
> > > 
> > >> So should I do anything to VMS to manage its configuration?
> > > 
> > > Nope.  OpenVMS is working exactly as expected.
> > > 
> > 
> > Why does it hang when the card is removed? Thats not expected to me...
> > .. if the CSRs worked before, surely they work the same afterwards....
> > 
> > >> In case it matters the machine is running VMS 7.3. The other cards in 
> > >> the machine are, from the CPU and memory moving left, a TK70 
> > >> controller card, a KZQSA SCSI controller with CD ROM and the DZQ11.
> > >>
> > >> Please excuse me asking on here but google seems to be intent on 
> > >> referring me to hpe sites which all redirect to the documentation Index.
> > > 
> > > HPE is exiting the OpenVMS business.
> > > 
> > 
> > Then why does it still have the documentation catalogue ...
> > 
> > > Use Google Groups search of the comp.os.vms newsgroup archives, search 
> > > for the word "serpentine" (though that's less of an issue with BA213 and 
> > > BA215 and BA4xx series Q-bus boxes), and learn how the Q-bus and the 
> > > Q-bus boards are configured.
> > > 
> > 
> > The BA440 backplane isn't a serpentine plane is it?
> > 
> > > Basically, the Q-bus CSRs and vectors can vary by what's installed in 
> > > the Q-bus in the box, and you'll need to adjust the CSR and (if present) 
> > > vector settings on one or more other Q-bus modules in the bus, and/or 
> > > insert a bus grant card or otherwise fill the vacated slot.
> > > 
> > > Start by reading chapters 3 and 4 here:
> > > https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_decvax630AITechnicalManualBA23EnclosureOct85_15635013/AZ-GLFAB-MN_VAXstation_II_Technical_Manual_BA23_Enclosure_Oct85#mode/2up 
> > > 
> > 
> > That is a Serpentine backplane isn't it? Frome reading the VAX/4000 
> > manual the BA440 isn't a serpentine backplane. The CD slots are seem to 
> > be generally only used for memory and there is no
> > 
> > > 
> > > Oh, and ********NEVER********** believe the interrupt vector setting 
> > > shown by OpenVMS.   Be skeptical about the CSR setting, too.
> > > OpenVMS VAX will tell you what it thinks or expects the vector to be, 
> > > and that may not match reality.
> > > OpenVMS VAX has no direct means of reading the interrupt vector setting, 
> > > and the indirect means is dicy at best and is not implemented by OpenVMS 
> > > displays.
> > > Again, ********NEVER, EVER, EVER, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, DO NOT EVEN 
> > > THINK OF IT, NOT-AT-ALL, NOPE, DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE******** trust 
> > > what OpenVMS VAX shows for CSR and particularly vector settings.
> > > Remove the boards, and decode the CSR and (if present) the interrupt 
> > > vector setting.
> > > 
> > > And FWIW, Google seemingly doesn't include the Google Groups content in 
> > > most Google searches.  Only the Google Groups search seemingly includes 
> > > that data from here in the newsgroup, and that Google Groups search 
> > > doesn't always work reliably.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> > It sometimes pops up....
> > 
> > Dave..
> 
> Without seeing some more info on what happens in the (failed)
> boot process it's hard to be helpful. Are you using a serial 
> console whose output can be captured and posted somewhere?
> 
> Also there is no such thing as VAX/4000, there are various 
> VAX 4000 family members of different shapes and sizes and 
> capabilities. 
> 
> To the best of my recollection very few (none?) of them were 
> sold in a BA23-type box with the BA23-associated mixed Q/CD 
> backplane. See e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX_4000 
> 
> Also look elsewhere on t'Interweb for references to BA440 
> enclosure which was frequently used for VAX 4000, (or even 
> look at the manufacturer label on your own enclosure) so
> readers can have a better idea of what's in the box, which 
> should help provide better responses to your questions.
> 
> Is there any chance that the addition of the DZQ card in the
> "VAX/4000" has done something which persists after the card 
> is removed? As you rightly point out, it's not unreasonable 
> to expect the "orignal" behaviour to be restored when the 
> DZQ is removed, if it's purely related to CSRs and vectors
> etc. However...
> 
> Let's suppose (for example - not suggesting that this is
> what's happening here, insufficient data to rule it in or 
> rule it out) the insertion of the DZQ makes something visible 
> that was previously invisible. 
> 
> Also suppose that newly visible something is VMScluster-related 
> and contributed to votes (lots of VAX 4000 systems had DSSI
> connected storage. DSSI disks could and did sometimes 
> contribute to cluster votes, and in the right circumstances
> that change could lead to an increase in E
> 
> Suppose also that removing the DZQ makes that something go
> away, and that it reappears when the DZQ is put back in, 
> either because of changed CSR/vectors or changed grant 
> continuity or whatever.
> 
> If it's having an effect on cluster formation, votes, etc, 
> it ought to be reasonably obvious from a boot-time console 
> log, if it was happening. 
> 
> Or this could be irrelevant to your setup. Right now it's hard 
> to say, but a little more detail on what you've actually got 
> might well be useful.
> 
> Best of luck. Have a lot of fun.

(some bits fell off my tryping, sorry bout dat -
it's past my bedtime already.)

an increase in E ->> should have read:
an increase in EXPECTED_VOTES, which persists after 
the DZQ is removed, but the votes disappear, so the 
"VAX/4000" may not finish booting because of the
missing VOTES.