[Info-vax] Python on VMS

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2019-01-17 kl. 22:57, skrev Dave Froble:
> On 1/17/2019 12:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 1/16/2019 1:21 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2019-01-16 kl. 18:01, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>> On 1/16/2019 9:11 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/16/19 8:34 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> But Python is let me call it "convenient" or "practical" - if
>>>>>> one needs to get something done then it is usually very easy
>>>>>> in Python.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not really any easier to do anything in Python than
>>>>> in a real language.  But using a real language just wouldn't
>>>>> be as cool.  The current nature of the industry.
>>>>
>>>> I will assume you by real languages mean traditional
>>>> languages like Fortran, Cobol, C, Pascal etc..
>>>>
>>>> Python is a lot easier than those languages for
>>>> a lot of what Python is used for.
>>>
>>> Agree! Last spring, when we needed to implement a REST interface
>>> to a new server/application, we selected to use Python (that we
>>> already had since many years on our VMS servers) since it already
>>> had an installed version of the "requests" package/module.
>>>
>>> Look up "requests" in the list of installed packages/moduls:
>>>
>>> http://www.vmspython.org/doku.php?id=downloadandinstallationpython
>>>
>>> Some examples using requests:
>>>
>>> https://www.pythonforbeginners.com/requests/using-requests-in-python
>>>
>>> Using this tool within Python is *far* easier then to code the same
>>> REST/HTTP calls using such as a C library and having some Cobol code
>>> calling that. Far far easier and much faster to get it running.
>>>
>>> Python also have built in tools to deal with the JSON formatted
>>> replies from the server, also way easier than to write our own
>>> code to encode and decode JSON data.
>>
>> I know about Python requests.
>>
>> http://www.vajhoej.dk/arne/articles/wsrest.html
>>
>> down under "client" "framework".
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> BTW, why does VMS Python come with requests instead of just coming with
>> pip and have those that need requests get it with pip?
>>

The guy that put together the VMS kit selected to add a number
of packages/modules in the LD container files directly. Neat.

Now, the requests package seems to be a Python-only source. So an
install might be fairly easy, I don't know. But it was even easier
to have the package already ready to run.

Some other packages has C sources and could (I guess) be a little
more work to get ported to the VMS-Python kit.


>>> Saying that it is just as hard in Python as any other traditional
>>> language just shows the ignorance of the one claiming that.
>>
>> There are many other languages with good libraries.
> 
> This is the issue.  Library routines can be implemented in many languages, 
> even Cobol.  Perhaps what Python has done better is to gather together more 
> library routines in a distribution package.
> 

This is not a "Python" thing, it just happens to be the way the VMS-Python
packages has been setup, with a number of packages/modules pre-installed.

And quite a few of the modules are unique for VMS such as the Rdb interface
and all VMS specific APIs.

>>
>> Python is a language where one usually get positive
>> surprised if one need top get something done without
>> too much hassle.
> 
> No, such products are for those who will not or can not develop their own.

Yes, and that is a good thing. In our case, without the Python/requests
tools, I do not really see how we could have been able to meet the
requirements. And why would one reinvent the wheel when it is already
available and tested?


> Not that I'm advocating NIH, I don't subscribe to that and will use 
> whatever works.
> 
>