[Info-vax] State of the OpenVMS hobbyist program?

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 11/23/19 12:36 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 11/22/2019 9:07 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 11/22/19 8:41 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2019 8:33 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/19 8:18 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/2019 2:27 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/22/19 12:23 PM, Bob Koehler wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <qr6be1$68t$1 at dont-email.me>, Dave Froble
>>>>>>> <davef at tsoft-inc.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem is, VSI can only issue licenses, or whatever, for
>>>>>>>> releases
>>>>>>>> that VSI has offered.  They cannot issue licenses for any
>>>>>>>> releases of
>>>>>>>> VMS they did not offer.  Not "will not", but "can not".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     True.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     But subject to change if the parties involved agree to do so.
>>>>>>> Sadly,
>>>>>>>     I can see no reason for HP to bother.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I can see no reason why VSI would either!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I can see at least one reason.  The more eyes on VMS, the better
>>>>> for VSI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor would any future entity running a hobbyist program for
>>>>> DEC/Compaq/HP versions of VMS have to be VSI.  HP could transfer the
>>>>> rights to just about anyone or anything.  Note, I'm not expecting them
>>>>> to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sure would be nice for them to say to VSI, we're getting totally
>>>>> out of the VMS business and all it encompasses.  Here is the whole
>>>>> thing. (And the hobbyist program be part of that package.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought they had already done that.
>>>
>>> No, they have not.  VSI cannot do anything with VMS releases they did
>>> not issue.
>>
>> Yes, but I thought VSI had been given everything, including the
>> VAX sources.
> 
> Robert and Don have answered that.  VSI has VAX sources.  VSI does not 
> have the HW on which to build, nor the time to do so, nor any reason to 
> do so.  

And that is what people have been saying.  It is not a lack of
permission from HP it is the lack of a business case.  As for
hardware, as people here have also pointed out, SIMH can do pretty
much any VAX hardware.  One can easily have more than a dozen
VAX systems up and running in less time than it takes to build
a single 11/750.  :-)  And with blazingly fast VMS build times.
It still comes down to the business case.  Of course, someone
in the community could always create an ISO with pre-configured
VAX SIMH systems on it running on something like Linux so that
VSI would need only boot the ISO, copy the sources and build.
Sadly, still left with the lack of a business case.

>          Being able to issue hobbyist licenses for VAX, when they don't 
> even have a hobbyist program at this time, just isn''t on their to-do 
> list.  And that is very understandable.

I don't think anyone said it had to be today, but 2020 is coming
fast.  :-)

> 
>>>>  It still leaves very
>>>> little business incentive to have any hobbyist program and
>>>> certainly not one for the VAX.
>>>
>>> We have to disagree about that.  As for VAX, well, VMS is VMS,
>>> regardless of the HW.  The VAX release was frozen at V7.3, but, still
>>> has the look, feel, and most of the capabilities.
>>
>> True.  Which is why some of us who can't afford or just
>> can't justify the cost still play with VAX.  That and
>> we just like the VAX architecture.  But those days come
>> to an end next year.
> 
> Well, there was a time when we didn't expect to see anything like VSI, 
> and we were pleasantly surprised.  Perhaps it's very wishful thinking, 
> but, I'm hoping that when HP is totally away from VMS, something in 2020 
> I believe, they will then allow VSI to issue licenses for the HP VMS 
> releases.

I would not hold  my breath waiting.

bill