[Info-vax] An alternative history of computing

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 7/25/21 9:32 AM, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
> On 7/25/2021 9:07 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 7/24/21 10:27 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 7/24/2021 8:26 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 7/24/2021 10:43 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-07-24, Andrew Commons <andrew.commons at bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, 23 July 2021 at 3:22:30 am UTC+9:30, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>>>>> DECnet is not an open specification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Parts of it are fully open (the lower-level NSP and related 
>>>>>>> stuff) but
>>>>>>> most of the higher-level application protocols are fully closed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, DECnet is/was an open specification.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of it can be found here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/decnet/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that the layered applications were not open does not 
>>>>>> change the
>>>>>> validity of that statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, a protocol which only opens its lower layers and only
>>>>> 1 or 2 of its upper layer protocols is not open in any way that could
>>>>> accurately be described as open.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be like saying that TCP/IP is open if only everything at TCP
>>>>> level and below was fully open along with FTP and a partial Telnet
>>>>> specification while everything else in the TCP/IP stack was fully 
>>>>> closed.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point of an open protocol is that you can fully implement another
>>>>> full version of it just by reading the specifications. You can do that
>>>>> with TCP/IP but you most certainly cannot do that with the subset of
>>>>> DECnet specifications that are available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not even the MAIL protocol is documented in public. That would be like
>>>>> calling TCP/IP open while keeping the SMTP specification closed.
>>>>
>>>> A protocol is open if it itself is documented.
>>>>
>>>> Other protocols on top of it can be open or closed without
>>>> impacting that.
>>>>
>>>> There are also closed protocols on top of TCP/IP - that
>>>> does not make TCP/IP closed.
>>>>
>>>> Arne
>>>>
>>>
>>> When this started, I just knew that some would come up with that 
>>> "open" word. Ya know, that word can be used in various contexts.  
>>> "Open the door."  "The book is open."  And such.
>>>
>>> Regardless, the claim was "(the DECnet specification was freely 
>>> available)" The claim was never "open", and definitely not "open 
>>> software".  I don't know how "freely" it was, but I do know there was 
>>> DECnet implementations on other than VMS.
>>>
>>
>> I have DECnet on my Linux box.  Used to connect to it using my
>> DECServer200.  And connect to both VAX and RSTS from it.
> 
> That would be LAT, not DECnet, using a DECserver.  They did not
> use DECnet.  The MOP protocol is used to remotely manage DECservers.
> 
> As the DECUS button said (regarding LAT on RSTS/E) -- "Better LAT/E than 
> never"
> 

$ man -k decnet
decnet.conf (5)      - DECnet hosts file
decnet.proxy (5)     - DECnet proxy file
decnetconf (8)       - Simple configuration script for DECnet
dneigh (8)           - DECnet Routing Information
dnetcat (1)          - opens a DECnet connection
dnetd (8)            - DECnet Super-server
dnetd.conf (5)       - DECnet objects file
dnetinfo (8)         - DECnet Routing Information
dnetnml (8)          - DECnet Network Management Listener
dnetstat (1)         - lists DECnet connections
dnlogin (1)          - Connect as a terminal to a DECnet system
dnroute (8)          - DECnet Routing Daemon
fal (8)              - File Access Listener for DECnet
mount.dapfs (8)      - Mount DAP filesystem over DECnet
multinet (8)         - Connect to a Multinet* DECnet over IP server
phone (1)            - Phone utility for DECnet
phoned (8)           - DECnet phone server daemon
rmtermd (8)          - Old style DECnet terminal services for Linux
sendvmsmail (8)      - mail forwarder for DECnet
setether (8)         - Set the ethernet address for use with DECnet
vmsmaild (8)         - mail daemon for DECnet


OK, I guess.  But I still have DECnet on my Linux box.

bill