[Info-vax] Entitled attitudes, was: Re: vax vms licenses

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 3/14/21 11:35 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 3/14/2021 9:18 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2021-03-14, chris <chris-nospam at tridac.net> wrote:
>>> On 03/15/21 00:55, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>> On 2021-03-14, Dave Froble<davef at tsoft-inc.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, the stage is yours, please explain just what it would cost VSI 
>>>>> if an
>>>>> entity that was never going to be a paying customer happened to run 
>>>>> VMS.
>>>>>    I'll wait for you to think up something.  I'll have to be very 
>>>>> patient.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a matter of trust David.
>>>>
>>>> I feel sorry for you that you clearly unable to understand this.
>>>>
>>>> Simon.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's a matter of personal ethics and we are all guilty of crossing
>>> that line, even stealing a pencil or sheet of A4 from work.
>>> I don't judge, as it's everyone's personal responsibility to decide
>>> their own actions, not mine and noone really gets away with anything
>>> in the end.
>>>
>>> However, for use of an obsolete OS that only hackers really care
>>> about anymore, the transgression looks pretty minor to me...
>>>
>>
>> The problem is that the level of entitlement someone feels they have
>> when wanting to use an old OS in violation of the hobbyist terms can
>> be seen as an indication of how much they can be trusted if someone
>> offers something new on a hobbyist licence.
>>
>> Didn't this already happen once with the PDP-11 hobbyist licence
>> when plans for a more generous PDP-11 hobbyist licence were scrapped
>> because of similar attitudes ?
>>
>> Simon.
>>
> 
> It's not just about trust, or hobbyist licenses.  It's about being able 
> to continue doing something one cares about.
> 
> It's like telling me I cannot fly anymore.  Yeah, that'll work, for 0 
> seconds.

They told me I can't fly.  And there is nothing  can do about it.

> 
> As for trust.  It's just too bad that the mindless corporation (HP) not 
> giving a damn about their customers.  

Hobbyists are customers?

>                                       They should have made it possible 
> for people to continue using VAX/VMS.  

Customers can.  Their licenses don't expire.  Hobbyists aren't
customers.

>                                        Such a simple thing.  But they 
> failed to do so.  Put that into your "trust meter" and tell me what it 
> says.

It says they don't do things that don;t make them money.  After all,
they are a business.

> 
> I understand "trust" rather well.

I don't understand what trust has to do with any of this.

> 
> For me personally, it doesn't matter.  I have commercial licenses for my 
> VAXs and Alphas.  But I know how I'd feel if I could no longer use VMS 
> for personal reasons.
> 
> VAX/VMS distribution is available, and if someone grabs it and figures 
> out how to use it, I'm sure not going to object.  None of my business 
> anyway.
> 
> Perhaps quit using that word, "entitlement", since I've never felt any 
> entitlement.

Maybe you don't, but some people posting here appear to.

> 
> All I want Phillip to do is come up with a "COST" in dollars and cents. 

I am not sure what COST you are looking for.  But giving away a
permanent Hobbyist License would have a cost.  At the very least
it would have to be run thru legal and that costs money.  And the
ROI?  $0.00

> He hasn't, most likely won't, he'll just keep harping on "right" and 
> "legal" and such.  He won't justify the one claim he's made.  He's 
> clueless.

Yeah, this legal thing is a real boogeyman.  Why should it be illegal?
It's just like that guy down the street with the Porsche.  How dare he
not let me drive it when he isn't.

bill