[Info-vax] OpenVMS developmen integration with Azure DevOps.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2021-09-01 kl. 23:31, skrev Dave Froble:
> On 9/1/2021 10:52 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-09-01 kl. 14:35, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>> On 9/1/2021 5:47 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> There are talks around our OpenVMS environment and project work
>>>> where it is looked at to add Azure DevOps to our work environment.
>>>>
>>>> They are talkning about "pipelines" within Azure DevOps where
>>>> the build procedures are setup and the build is run from within
>>>> the Azure Devops environment.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have any comments around this? Have anyone looked at
>>>> using Azure DevOps for their OpenVMS development/test/deploy?
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone looked at other tools (DECset?) to do anything in
>>>> this direction?
>>>
>>> I suspect that typical VMS processes are a few decades behind
>>> modern cloud devops processes.
>>>
>>> But most things are possible with some effort.
>>>
>>> I know that:
>>> - John Malmberg & vms-ports use Jenkins for builds
>>> - Jenkins integrate with Azure devops
>>>
>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/vms-ports/wiki/UsingJenkinsCi/
>>>
>>> https://medium.com/@bbenz/azure-devops-and-jenkins-in-perfect-harmony-8c92ff980723 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe some of that stuff can be utilized.
>>>
>>> Arne
>>>
>>
>> Right, the guy that made the Azure DevOps presentation from our group
>> had a hard time to understand why we just didn't copy our source codes
>> to a Azure VM and just run the build from DevOps... :-)
> 
> Right, so he didn't know what he was talking about, huh?

He knew very well what he was talkning about! Azure Devops...
But he didn't know a) that we use OpenVMS and b) what OpenVMS is.
That was not his fault.

> 
> Who wants to follow this pied piper into the swamp, and worse?
> 
>> We had to run a quick presentation of OpenVMS on our Alpha dev system.
>> Oh, so it is Cobol?
>> Oh, so it is a main-frame?
>> Oh, so this is not running on X86?
> 
> As observer, the guy had no idea what he was talking about.

He very well did. Not his fault he hadn't been updated correctly
by the guy who had asked him to run the presentation for our group.

> 
> Some question for the jerk ...
> 
> The current system is working just fine, why should we take your advice?

The *system* works just fine. But our development processes does not.

> 
> What will we get?  A sideways move, at best, and more likely bugs and less.

We might end up using DevOps just to get a better development process.
That is, the administrative part. Technically we might keep what we have.

> 
> Who is going to pay for this?

Does it matter? The goal is to get a better development process and
better deliveries of functionallity to the business.

> 
> What is the business case to do anything?

The mess within the development processes.

> 
> The list is long ....
> 

Now, *I* is not convinced that any new support system will help
us, as long as we have the organization and the staffing we have.
We have a group of "developers" that have none or very little
background from VMS. They might know Cobol, but...

I spend a considerable part of by consulting hours to "support"
our developers with guidings and suggestion around the more basic
OpenVMS stuff. How logical names works. How mailboxes works.
A lot of other basic VMS stuff. 6 years now and 3 major change
of staff and it is not getting better.

But they are payed 1/3 of my hourly rate...