[Info-vax] Rust as a HS language, was: Re: Quiet?

[Simon Clubley]

On 2022-04-04, Arne Vajhøj <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 4/4/2022 8:28 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> 2) No official ISO or similar language standard I can rely on 5/10/20 years
>> from now when I need to work on my safety or general production critical
>> code at that point.
>> 
>> Even though many of the Rust people appear not to understand this, the
>> lack of those guarantees is a _massive_ problem in the real world.
>
> Not really. Lot of popular languages are not formally standardized.
> Python and PHP are not standardized. C# is/was standardized but the
> standard is 6 versions behind. It took 13 years before C++ got
> standardized.
>

You have just made my point for me Arne. Or to put it another way,
Python 2 to Python 3.

Why wasn't Python 3 just another language mode in the existing compiler
instead of being a whole different compiler ?

Why did Python 2.7 stay around for as long as it did ? How many are still
using it these days due to an existing code base ?

I can compile C89 code on a compiler 33 years later. When another standard
for C is released, it becomes just another language mode in the existing
compilers and all the existing C standards are still supported.

How confident are you that I can compile C89 code in yet another 10 years ?

In comparison, how confident are you that I can compile existing Python 3
or Rust code in another 10 years ?

What's to stop the Rust people from having some great language revamp a
few years from now and then stop supporting the existing language variant ?

The Python people did that and it's a _much_ more popular language than
Rust so what's to stop the Rust people from doing the same thing ?

> If there is a desire for ISO Rust then it could happen. The likelihood
> of it happening will increase if different implementations show up.
>
>> 3) Unlike mainstream programming languages, the Rust community always
>> seems to be lurching from one social drama to the next.
>> 
>> That in itself is an instant switchoff because the community is one
>> major social crisis away from falling apart (at least until it's then
>> rebuilt and a new direction emerges).
>> 
>> You can't rely on a programming language when something like that is
>> a real possibility. You wouldn't see social crisis stuff on the C/C++/Ada
>> language standards groups for example.
>
> I don't think the number of heated discussions in the rust community
> is unique. They may be a bit more transparent about it than most. And
> the "internet tabloid press" loves that type of stuff. But has anything
> actually been significant delayed due to it?
>

I'm talking about the social stuff, not the technical stuff.

It's the stuff that can become so toxic, it can cause a community
itself to become damaged.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley at remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.