[Info-vax] Userland programming languages on VMS.

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 1/30/22 08:36, VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <st4sup$gh9$1 at gioia.aioe.org>, Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS at hotmail.com> writes:
>> On 28/01/2022 4:08 am, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 1/27/2022 2:31 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>> On 2022-01-27, Arne Vajhøj <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/27/2022 11:25 AM, John Reagan wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 3:39:38 AM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>> Why C, when there are better languages?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are about to use the B-word, better is relative.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> But not everybody is in love with C.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I consider C a fine language for OS kernel development
>>>>> but not so great a language for more regular applications. And
>>>>> DIR is really an application.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not good at VMS Basic, so I would prefer VMS Pascal.
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Pascal is acceptable, but Ada would be better. :-)
>>>>
>>>> On a more serious note, what would be an acceptable programming language
>>>> for userland tools which need to be shipped as part of the operating
>>>> system ?
>>>>
>>>> Let's look at the language options for creating a new userland level
>>>> tool on VMS today:
>>>>
>>>> Macro-32 and BLISS are absolutely unsuitable for obvious reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Basic appears to be a poor choice when compared to the alternatives
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> Ada is no longer available on VMS going forward.
>>>>
>>>> C is suitable, but is low-level.
>>>>
>>>> C++ is a possibility (provided a sane subset of the language is used).
>>>> However, am I the only one who finds that C++ compilers across all
>>>> operating systems get slower and slower as new versions some out ?
>>>> Look at how long it takes to compile the LLVM toolkit for example. :-(
>>>> :-(
>>>>
>>>> Pascal is also very much a possibility.
>>>>
>>>> Fortran and COBOL are not suitable for writing operating system userland
>>>> tools.
>>>>
>>>> So what programming language would you use for a new userland tool on VMS
>>>> if you couldn't use Pascal ? As far as I can see, it's only C or maybe
>>>> C++.
>>>
>>> I believe Basic would be a lot better than C.
>>>
>>> Arne
>>>
>>
>> And COBOL is the besterest.
>>
>> And if you can program some MACRO then you need a Garbage Collect to
>> cover up yor lack of skill in managing memory.
> 
> I've never needed "garbage collection" and I've written some very large and complex
> products all in Macro!

I have to admit I really didn't get this one either.  I have worked
with a lot of assemblers and written a number of programs in them
and have never had a problem with garbage collection.  Memory leaks
seem to be much more of a problem with higher level languages and
especially the newer language du jour.

bill