[Info-vax] Taking a break - Open Source on OpenVMS Conference Calls Resume in the FALL of 2022...

[seasoned_geek]

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 2:19:47 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 7/4/2022 6:33 AM, seasoned_geek wrote: 
> > On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 8:33:33 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >> On 7/3/2022 10:14 AM, seasoned_geek wrote: 
> >>> On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 1:50:47 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >>>> On 6/19/2022 10:37 AM, seasoned_geek wrote: 
> >>>>> On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 5:49:30 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >>>>>> On 6/18/2022 11:53 AM, seasoned_geek wrote: 
> >>>>>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 10:32:21 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >>>>>>>> On 6/17/2022 11:00 AM, Chris Townley wrote: 
> >>>>>>>>> On 17/06/2022 14:33, Arne Vajhøj wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> This shows just how little you know. 
> >>> 
> >>> The __purchased__ item is the Windows desktop and it runs on the free Linux distro of your choice. Microsoft and Windows are no longer liable for any network breaches because 100% of the network code is OpenSource Linux which they have no control over per the license agreement. 
> >> If MS sell an installable product with a Linux kernel and a 
> >> Windows desktop then they may be able to sell it because 
> >> their customer do not care whether it has a NT kernel or 
> >> a Linux kernel, but they would still be responsible for 
> >> the product. 
> >> 
> >> If MS tell customers to buy or download a Unix distro, 
> >> install it and get it running on their PC and then buy 
> >> and install a Windows desktop, then they would not be 
> >> responsible for the Linux pieces, but they would not get 
> >> any customers - as that is not what Windows users expect. 
> > 
> > Seriously? Did you think about that before you typed it? 
> > 
> > Other than a few hard core coding geeks, what Microsoft "user" installs Windows? 
> > 
> > They go to a Big Box store, or a Web site. They buy a computer "with 
> > Windows pre-installed." It asks them for a user name and password at 
> > first boot. They have no idea how it got installed and more 
> > importantly they don't care.
> Some people prefer a clean install over a factory install, but 
> yes that is only the few. 
> 
> But a lot of people actually upgrade Windows on old PC's today. 
> That used to be rare because people bought new PC's every 3-4 
> years, but no longer. 
> 
> Regarding the new pre-installed systems, then that is certainly 
> extremely common, but it is not clear either. 
> 
> Let us say that the consumer goes to Best Buy and buy a HP 
> laptop with pre-installed Windows. 
> 
> You say that HP is responsible similar to the Ford logo, but in 
> the end MS is responsible for their software. 
> 
> What happens if MS doesn't like that responsibility and tell HP 
> to install Linux and a MS product on top of that and a problem 
> is found in Linux? 
> 
> It seems like HP will end up with the monkey then. But unless 
> HP is willing to take on a risk that MS is not, then HP will 
> not accept that. 
> 
> Laptops without pre-installed OS???? 
> 
> Arne

You obviously don't own HP or Lenovo products today. I'm typing this response in the early morning hours on my Lenovo laptop. It's a T440s and  a looong way from new, but I love it mostly for how incredible it is to type on.

This is one of the incredibly few machines I allow a virus known as Windows to run. Lenovo Solution Center is installed on it. This is the Lenovo support tool for "optimizing" your computer, push marketing of upgrades, Lenovo diagnostics, firmware updates, and driver updates. Half the time it will tell you to install Windows updates (actually do it for you after you click OK) long before Windows update flags anything. I think there is even a "live chat" with support.

I had Windows on one HP desktop. They pre-load HP-Assistant. Pretty much the same thing. As I recall HP-Assistant was a tiny bit better. On the back end you could group all of your printers and computers into one "desktop" display. But, it was still diagnostics software, push marketing, firmware & driver upgrades, along with Windows updates.

A raw Windows whatever install doesn't come with all of the software preloaded at the factory. With HP and Lenovo in particular it is damned dicey to perform a raw install on their new hardware. As a general rule Microsoft doesn't yet have the wireless network drivers. Been there, done that. When it is one of those "thin" modern things without a network jack, you are royally F-ed. you have to identify the driver from another machine, download it to a thumb drive and try to install. Guess what? There are dependencies that aren't bundled into the driver because the update process can automatically download them . . .