[Info-vax] Hand scanners and VMS.

[chris]

On 07/25/22 13:16, chris wrote:
> On 07/24/22 13:34, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 14:10, skrev chris:
>>> On 07/24/22 12:29, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
>>>>> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>>>>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from
>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the
>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode
>>>>>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that
>>>>>>>>>>>> matches
>>>>>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port
>>>>>>>>>>>> terminal
>>>>>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are
>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are
>>>>>>>>>>>> not so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>> jacks
>>>>>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not
>>>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>>>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that
>>>>>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on
>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet,
>>>>>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>>>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we can
>>>>>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been
>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly
>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy
>>>>>>>> from-the-shelf.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have
>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the
>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have
>>>>>>>> boxes
>>>>>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the
>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and
>>>>>>>> test…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
>>>>>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>>>>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each
>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>>>>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make
>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>>>>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
>>>>>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work
>>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>>>>>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>>>>>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
>>>>>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>>>>>> period to end... :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
>>>>> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
>>>>> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
>>>>> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>>>>>
>>>>> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
>>>>> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
>>>>> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
>>>>> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
>>>>> wall wart power...
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> OK. This is usually about a single scanner at each location within one
>>>> scanner cable distance. So single port devices will be fine. Or maybe
>>>> dual port (same size, and close to the same price). Just screwed to
>>>> the wall.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Black box made similar devices, but sure if they are still in
>>> business. I would still go for the Moxa devices here, as they are
>>> a known quantity, easy to setup and just fit and forget. Quite
>>> often see them s/h on Ebay as well, if you need one for your
>>> own evaluation.
>>
>> I can get one single port wired model for 140-150 USD over-night
>> from a Swedish supplier. In line with what some US eBay sellers charge
>> for shipping only. So thanks for the idea, but that is not an issue.
>>
>> The issue right now is to find the RS232 cable option for that
>> Honeywell scanner I bought. :-)
>>
>>>
>>>> One thing is that one major electronics supplier in Sweden had
>>>> plenty in stock of the 1 and 2 port modells *without* Wifi, but
>>>> none of the Wifi modells. Weird. Have to ask them in the week...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> For industrial use, I would avoid wifi if possible, as it just
>>> introduces more complexity and something else to fail. Wired
>>> networking is generally the best for reliability...
>>
>> *I* agree. But the site has an all-covering Wifi network in the
>> assembly halls, and it costs them much more to get the cable-guy
>> in place each time a new equipment needs to be installed, instead
>> of just connect to the Wifi network. And having switches installed
>> with enough ports for everything.
>>
>> But for evaluation, a wired Moxa works just as well...
>>
>> Yes, we do lose the network links now and then, but we try to have
>> features in place to have automatic TCPIP reconnets in those cases.
>>
>> Jan-Erik.
>>
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>>
>
> I just found another single channel unit which was used to drive a
> Datamax serial label printer. Made by a Canadian company, Patton
> Electronics, Model 2120/AM. Network port one side, serial rs232
> 25 pin on the other. Very much still in business, web site etc
> and they may have wifi solutions as well. Might be worth looking
> at...
>
> Chris
>

Correction: US company in Gathersberg, Maryland...