[Info-vax] Hand scanners and VMS.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2022-07-25 kl. 14:20, skrev chris:
> On 07/25/22 13:16, chris wrote:
>> On 07/24/22 13:34, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 14:10, skrev chris:
>>>> On 07/24/22 12:29, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
>>>>>> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>>>>>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port
>>>>>>>>>>>>> terminal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that
>>>>>>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on
>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>>>>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC
>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>>>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we can
>>>>>>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been
>>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly
>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy
>>>>>>>>> from-the-shelf.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have
>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the
>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have
>>>>>>>>> boxes
>>>>>>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the
>>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and
>>>>>>>>> test…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
>>>>>>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>>>>>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each
>>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>>>>>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make
>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>>>>>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
>>>>>>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work
>>>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>>>>>>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>>>>>>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
>>>>>>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>>>>>>> period to end... :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
>>>>>> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
>>>>>> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
>>>>>> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
>>>>>> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
>>>>>> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
>>>>>> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
>>>>>> wall wart power...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. This is usually about a single scanner at each location within one
>>>>> scanner cable distance. So single port devices will be fine. Or maybe
>>>>> dual port (same size, and close to the same price). Just screwed to
>>>>> the wall.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Black box made similar devices, but sure if they are still in
>>>> business. I would still go for the Moxa devices here, as they are
>>>> a known quantity, easy to setup and just fit and forget. Quite
>>>> often see them s/h on Ebay as well, if you need one for your
>>>> own evaluation.
>>>
>>> I can get one single port wired model for 140-150 USD over-night
>>> from a Swedish supplier. In line with what some US eBay sellers charge
>>> for shipping only. So thanks for the idea, but that is not an issue.
>>>
>>> The issue right now is to find the RS232 cable option for that
>>> Honeywell scanner I bought. :-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One thing is that one major electronics supplier in Sweden had
>>>>> plenty in stock of the 1 and 2 port modells *without* Wifi, but
>>>>> none of the Wifi modells. Weird. Have to ask them in the week...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> For industrial use, I would avoid wifi if possible, as it just
>>>> introduces more complexity and something else to fail. Wired
>>>> networking is generally the best for reliability...
>>>
>>> *I* agree. But the site has an all-covering Wifi network in the
>>> assembly halls, and it costs them much more to get the cable-guy
>>> in place each time a new equipment needs to be installed, instead
>>> of just connect to the Wifi network. And having switches installed
>>> with enough ports for everything.
>>>
>>> But for evaluation, a wired Moxa works just as well...
>>>
>>> Yes, we do lose the network links now and then, but we try to have
>>> features in place to have automatic TCPIP reconnets in those cases.
>>>
>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I just found another single channel unit which was used to drive a
>> Datamax serial label printer. Made by a Canadian company, Patton
>> Electronics, Model 2120/AM. Network port one side, serial rs232
>> 25 pin on the other. Very much still in business, web site etc
>> and they may have wifi solutions as well. Might be worth looking
>> at...
>>
>> Chris
>>
> 
> Correction: US company in Gathersberg, Maryland...
> 

Found some RS232 devices, EOL on those that I looked at...