[Info-vax] Hand scanners and VMS.

[chris]

On 07/25/22 14:34, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-07-25 kl. 14:20, skrev chris:
>> On 07/25/22 13:16, chris wrote:
>>> On 07/24/22 13:34, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 14:10, skrev chris:
>>>>> On 07/24/22 12:29, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
>>>>>>> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>>>>>>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terminal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scanner,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC
>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>> info,
>>>>>>>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been
>>>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly
>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy
>>>>>>>>>> from-the-shelf.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have
>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have
>>>>>>>>>> boxes
>>>>>>>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the
>>>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and
>>>>>>>>>> test…
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>>>>>>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each
>>>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>>>>>>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make
>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>>>>>>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work,
>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work
>>>>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>>>>>>>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>>>>>>>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just
>>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>>>>>>>> period to end... :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
>>>>>>> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
>>>>>>> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
>>>>>>> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
>>>>>>> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
>>>>>>> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
>>>>>>> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
>>>>>>> wall wart power...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK. This is usually about a single scanner at each location within
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> scanner cable distance. So single port devices will be fine. Or maybe
>>>>>> dual port (same size, and close to the same price). Just screwed to
>>>>>> the wall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Black box made similar devices, but sure if they are still in
>>>>> business. I would still go for the Moxa devices here, as they are
>>>>> a known quantity, easy to setup and just fit and forget. Quite
>>>>> often see them s/h on Ebay as well, if you need one for your
>>>>> own evaluation.
>>>>
>>>> I can get one single port wired model for 140-150 USD over-night
>>>> from a Swedish supplier. In line with what some US eBay sellers charge
>>>> for shipping only. So thanks for the idea, but that is not an issue.
>>>>
>>>> The issue right now is to find the RS232 cable option for that
>>>> Honeywell scanner I bought. :-)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing is that one major electronics supplier in Sweden had
>>>>>> plenty in stock of the 1 and 2 port modells *without* Wifi, but
>>>>>> none of the Wifi modells. Weird. Have to ask them in the week...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> For industrial use, I would avoid wifi if possible, as it just
>>>>> introduces more complexity and something else to fail. Wired
>>>>> networking is generally the best for reliability...
>>>>
>>>> *I* agree. But the site has an all-covering Wifi network in the
>>>> assembly halls, and it costs them much more to get the cable-guy
>>>> in place each time a new equipment needs to be installed, instead
>>>> of just connect to the Wifi network. And having switches installed
>>>> with enough ports for everything.
>>>>
>>>> But for evaluation, a wired Moxa works just as well...
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we do lose the network links now and then, but we try to have
>>>> features in place to have automatic TCPIP reconnets in those cases.
>>>>
>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I just found another single channel unit which was used to drive a
>>> Datamax serial label printer. Made by a Canadian company, Patton
>>> Electronics, Model 2120/AM. Network port one side, serial rs232
>>> 25 pin on the other. Very much still in business, web site etc
>>> and they may have wifi solutions as well. Might be worth looking
>>> at...
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>> Correction: US company in Gathersberg, Maryland...
>>
>
> Found some RS232 devices, EOL on those that I looked at...
>
>
>

I guess the units I have are pretty old now, so looks like
moxa then.

Pcs don't have serial ports these days, though still widely
used in embedded work for industrial control, due to its
simplicity in software and hardware terms. Usb is far more
complex in terms of the software stack needed to drive it and
of course, networking even more so...

Chris