[Info-vax] Hand scanners and VMS.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2022-07-25 kl. 16:48, skrev chris:
> On 07/25/22 14:34, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-07-25 kl. 14:20, skrev chris:
>>> On 07/25/22 13:16, chris wrote:
>>>> On 07/24/22 13:34, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 14:10, skrev chris:
>>>>>> On 07/24/22 12:29, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
>>>>>>>> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>>>>>>>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barcode
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terminal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scanner,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ethernet,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been
>>>>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly
>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy
>>>>>>>>>>> from-the-shelf.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have
>>>>>>>>>>> boxes
>>>>>>>>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the
>>>>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and
>>>>>>>>>>> test…
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>>>>>>>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each
>>>>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>>>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>>>>>>>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make
>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>>>>>>>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work,
>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work
>>>>>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>>>>>>>>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>>>>>>>>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just
>>>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>>>>>>>>> period to end... :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
>>>>>>>> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
>>>>>>>> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
>>>>>>>> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
>>>>>>>> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
>>>>>>>> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
>>>>>>>> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
>>>>>>>> wall wart power...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK. This is usually about a single scanner at each location within
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> scanner cable distance. So single port devices will be fine. Or maybe
>>>>>>> dual port (same size, and close to the same price). Just screwed to
>>>>>>> the wall.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Black box made similar devices, but sure if they are still in
>>>>>> business. I would still go for the Moxa devices here, as they are
>>>>>> a known quantity, easy to setup and just fit and forget. Quite
>>>>>> often see them s/h on Ebay as well, if you need one for your
>>>>>> own evaluation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can get one single port wired model for 140-150 USD over-night
>>>>> from a Swedish supplier. In line with what some US eBay sellers charge
>>>>> for shipping only. So thanks for the idea, but that is not an issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue right now is to find the RS232 cable option for that
>>>>> Honeywell scanner I bought. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One thing is that one major electronics supplier in Sweden had
>>>>>>> plenty in stock of the 1 and 2 port modells *without* Wifi, but
>>>>>>> none of the Wifi modells. Weird. Have to ask them in the week...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> For industrial use, I would avoid wifi if possible, as it just
>>>>>> introduces more complexity and something else to fail. Wired
>>>>>> networking is generally the best for reliability...
>>>>>
>>>>> *I* agree. But the site has an all-covering Wifi network in the
>>>>> assembly halls, and it costs them much more to get the cable-guy
>>>>> in place each time a new equipment needs to be installed, instead
>>>>> of just connect to the Wifi network. And having switches installed
>>>>> with enough ports for everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> But for evaluation, a wired Moxa works just as well...
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we do lose the network links now and then, but we try to have
>>>>> features in place to have automatic TCPIP reconnets in those cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just found another single channel unit which was used to drive a
>>>> Datamax serial label printer. Made by a Canadian company, Patton
>>>> Electronics, Model 2120/AM. Network port one side, serial rs232
>>>> 25 pin on the other. Very much still in business, web site etc
>>>> and they may have wifi solutions as well. Might be worth looking
>>>> at...
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>> Correction: US company in Gathersberg, Maryland...
>>>
>>
>> Found some RS232 devices, EOL on those that I looked at...
>>
>>
>>
> 
> I guess the units I have are pretty old now, so looks like
> moxa then.
> 
> Pcs don't have serial ports these days, though still widely
> used in embedded work for industrial control, due to its
> simplicity in software and hardware terms. Usb is far more
> complex in terms of the software stack needed to drive it and
> of course, networking even more so...
> 
> Chris
> 

I think that one main difference is that a DB9 RSR232 connector
has screw locking of the cable, USB has not, you can just pull
the cable to disconnect.