[Info-vax] OpenVMS async I/O, fast vs. slow

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2023-11-06 14:07, bill wrote:
> On 11/6/2023 5:58 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> On 2023-11-05 16:58, bill wrote:
>>
>>> We have so many "colleges" teaching trade school courses (like diesel
>>> mechanics, HVAC welding and even motorcycle mechanics)I really wish
>>> trade schools would step up to the plate ad start teaching IT and in
>>> particular thing like COBOL, Fortran and PL/I.  They are not going away.
>>
>> Academia should not teach languages. If they do, they are clearly not 
>> doing the right thing.
> 
> I hear this all the time.  Believe it or not, in a way, it is a debate
> that has been going on for centuries.  Should college teach trades or
> just liberal arts and leave the trades to others?  Like it or not, the
> majority of college students are there with a belief that they will
> learn something that will enhance their future earnings and not just to
> expand their minds.
> 
> As for teaching languages. Every program I have ever seen taught
> languages.

Yeah. And the first language we were exposed to in the CS program at my 
university was Lisp. Not because the industry asked for it, but because 
it was/is a good tool to learn a bunch of important concepts. A few 
years later they switched to Scheme, and then Eiffel. Not because of any 
industry need, but because of teaching needs.

And that's how it should be. Of course you'll learn some language or 
other. But they are *tools* for a purpose. If you think that academia 
should be repsonsible for churning out robots then I can see why you 
have such a big issue with academia.

>> They should teach methods, principles, concepts, ideas.
> 
> They teach that, too, but without detailed knowledge of a language
> it really doesn't do much for the student.

But the choice of language is very different if you pick it because it's 
the best tool for teaching concepts, or if you pick it because 
"industry" wants it.

I think I've made it clear enough which I think academia should go for...

>> The language is just a tool. You need to learn and use different tools 
>> all the time. That you could/should learn at the place where it is 
>> used/needed. 
> 
> The old OJT idea.  But most places expect when they hire you you will
> hit the ground running.  Thus the reason for this latest craze for
> "certification".  HR places a value on them.  The government requires
> them.  I really see little value in something you learned over the
> weekend in a boot camp and probably forgot by Teusday.

SOmething is broken in your corner. I can't tell what, and I certainly 
can't fix it. But from where I stand, academia is not the problem, and 
not the ones doing anything wrong, and is not the thing that should be 
"fixed".

>>               And if you have all the teachings from academia, that 
>> should be an easy thing.
> 
> Not necessarily easy, but doable.  But, how many hiring managers are
> going to be willing to wait for you to learn something they expected
> you to learn in college before you can provide any value to the company?

How about people actually learn things on their own? If they have a good 
toolbox, which academia should have provided to them, they can pick up 
whatever they are then interested in, and in turn that will lead them to 
applying for positions where they can make use of the skills they then 
have, if they can't find a place that is willing to hire a new graduate.

But a new graduate have larger issues than not knowing the language. The 
first few years they always needs a lot of hand holding and pointing 
directions. Language skills is the least of the problems, really.

And having some language skills or not is not the biggest question when 
hiring a new graduate. At least it has not been for me, when hiring. It 
becomes mostly a question of assessing ability to understand problems, 
being able to figure something out, being able to work in a group and 
interact with others, and having a sound mind.

I have no idea about your experience or environment, but to me you are 
describing something very foreign that I can't understand how it would 
ever work. And then claiming that academia is the problem makes it just 
sound even stranger.

   Johnny